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> They seem to be advised by a bunch of decrepit dudes who stopped learning about computers before the OSI model was created. I suspect its more like "dudes wh

> They seem to be advised by a bunch of decrepit dudes who stopped learning about computers before the OSI model was created. I suspect its more like "dudes who know nothing about computers (let alone the OSI model)" coming up with dumb ideas. These ideas are all approved and encouraged by advisors under the influence of Big Tech interests, which are more than happy to achieve regulatory capture [0] to protect their proprietary and closed consumer products from consumer-orientated FOSS projects, by making it harder (or even impossible) for these to even operate on a fully free capacity. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulatory_capture https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulatory_capture

globular-toast 3y ago
Actually the current anti-encryption laws going through in the UK are pretty anti-Big Tech. One of the main motivations is they don't think Big Tech is "thinking of the children" and it should be their responsibility to do that.
- Mordisquitos 3y ago
  Good point. Much as I despise Meta, I have to admit I have been pleasantly surprised by their hardline stance in defending WhatsApp's e2e encryption.
  - i_am_jl 3y ago
    >I have to admit I have been pleasantly surprised by their hardline stance in defending WhatsApp's e2e encryption. I appreciate their stance as well, but I don't think it should be surprising. There's a real cost to updating WhatsApp to meet those requirements, and I think Meta's belief is that MPs will cave instead of taking the heat for banning WhatsApp.
  - globular-toast 3y ago
    Me too but after talking to my MP about it I do wonder how much of it is because they (Meta) fundamentally support privacy and everything that comes with that or if it's just a convenient way to deny having any responsibility towards safety on their platforms. It's possible to be right, but for the wrong reasons. I'd like to think it's for the right reasons, but I'm not sure. If users really cared about privacy they'd use open source software instead of WhatsApp anyway. I doubt the removal or compromised e2e encryption would make much of a dent in user numbers. One thing I've come to realise is most people want privacy for themselves, but not for others.
    - dchftcs 3y ago
      Well you could play the devil's advocate the same way. Is the UK government really caring about the children or do they just want more convenient power. If the citizens really cared about the future of their children they would not have elected a government that is a stinking pile of poop. One thing you should also have come to realise is that most politicians want surveillance power for themselves, but not for others.
      - ben_w 3y ago
        > If the citizens really cared about the future of their children they would not have elected a government that is a stinking pile of poop As always, I find myself unsure how many actively voted for the Eton Mess vs how many voted to keep out Socialist Santaclaus and his Singing Elves. Both have been (de facto) kicked out of their respective parties since the last election, which says something about the terrible state of UK politics.
        denton-scratch 3y ago
        > Both have been (de facto) kicked out of their respective parties since the last election I thought that by "Eton Mess", you meant to include Rishi Sunak and David Cameron. The former is the leader of the Tories, and I'm not aware that Csameron is (de facto) no longer a Tory. What did you mean?
        ben_w 3y ago
        Boris Johnson, specifically, as their leader in the previous election. I mean, look at him, guy's a literal and metaphorical mess.
      - Slava_Propanei 3y ago
        > Is the UK government really caring about the children or do they just want more convenient power I think the UK government’s blind eye toward well-known and acknowledged instances of organized child molestation shows they don’t care. About that.
- christkv 3y ago
  More like they are not thinking of GCHQ
downWidOutaFite 3y ago
It's the antiAmericanism and the big tech boogeyman that drives a lot of these crazy European attacks on the open web.
- input_sh 3y ago
  ...as if the US doesn't do the same every few years: SOPA, PIPA, CISPA, FOSTA-SESTA, KOSA
  - acka 3y ago
    You can add CALEA and OMA CP to this list, probably more relevant to the current topic.
ColinHayhurst 3y ago
Unless I've missed it and not found it, the silence from Apple (Safari), Google (Chrome) and Microsoft (Bing) is deafening. Do they actually welcome these measures? If not, two of them for sure will have lobbied behind closed doors, so have they rolled over and thus have no public opposition to express? Since the measure will have little impact on their revenues, why would they care?

globular-toast 3y ago

Actually the current anti-encryption laws going through in the UK are pretty anti-Big Tech. One of the main motivations is they don't think Big Tech is "thinking of the children" and it should be their responsibility to do that.

Mordisquitos 3y ago
Good point. Much as I despise Meta, I have to admit I have been pleasantly surprised by their hardline stance in defending WhatsApp's e2e encryption.
- i_am_jl 3y ago
  >I have to admit I have been pleasantly surprised by their hardline stance in defending WhatsApp's e2e encryption. I appreciate their stance as well, but I don't think it should be surprising. There's a real cost to updating WhatsApp to meet those requirements, and I think Meta's belief is that MPs will cave instead of taking the heat for banning WhatsApp.
- globular-toast 3y ago
  Me too but after talking to my MP about it I do wonder how much of it is because they (Meta) fundamentally support privacy and everything that comes with that or if it's just a convenient way to deny having any responsibility towards safety on their platforms. It's possible to be right, but for the wrong reasons. I'd like to think it's for the right reasons, but I'm not sure. If users really cared about privacy they'd use open source software instead of WhatsApp anyway. I doubt the removal or compromised e2e encryption would make much of a dent in user numbers. One thing I've come to realise is most people want privacy for themselves, but not for others.
  - dchftcs 3y ago
    Well you could play the devil's advocate the same way. Is the UK government really caring about the children or do they just want more convenient power. If the citizens really cared about the future of their children they would not have elected a government that is a stinking pile of poop. One thing you should also have come to realise is that most politicians want surveillance power for themselves, but not for others.
    - ben_w 3y ago
      > If the citizens really cared about the future of their children they would not have elected a government that is a stinking pile of poop As always, I find myself unsure how many actively voted for the Eton Mess vs how many voted to keep out Socialist Santaclaus and his Singing Elves. Both have been (de facto) kicked out of their respective parties since the last election, which says something about the terrible state of UK politics.
      - denton-scratch 3y ago
        > Both have been (de facto) kicked out of their respective parties since the last election I thought that by "Eton Mess", you meant to include Rishi Sunak and David Cameron. The former is the leader of the Tories, and I'm not aware that Csameron is (de facto) no longer a Tory. What did you mean?
        ben_w 3y ago
        Boris Johnson, specifically, as their leader in the previous election. I mean, look at him, guy's a literal and metaphorical mess.
    - Slava_Propanei 3y ago
      > Is the UK government really caring about the children or do they just want more convenient power I think the UK government’s blind eye toward well-known and acknowledged instances of organized child molestation shows they don’t care. About that.
christkv 3y ago
More like they are not thinking of GCHQ

downWidOutaFite 3y ago

It's the antiAmericanism and the big tech boogeyman that drives a lot of these crazy European attacks on the open web.

input_sh 3y ago
...as if the US doesn't do the same every few years: SOPA, PIPA, CISPA, FOSTA-SESTA, KOSA
- acka 3y ago
  You can add CALEA and OMA CP to this list, probably more relevant to the current topic.

ColinHayhurst 3y ago

Unless I've missed it and not found it, the silence from Apple (Safari), Google (Chrome) and Microsoft (Bing) is deafening. Do they actually welcome these measures? If not, two of them for sure will have lobbied behind closed doors, so have they rolled over and thus have no public opposition to express? Since the measure will have little impact on their revenues, why would they care?