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I would try the original book on people pleasing: "No more Mr. Nice Guy" by Dr. Robert Glover. The title may sound lousy but is a very logical book. The autho

I would try the original book on people pleasing: "No more Mr. Nice Guy" by Dr. Robert Glover. The title may sound lousy but is a very logical book. The author is a PhD in his 60s and he coined the concept. You can start by listening some podcasts where he was a guest. He's genuine and a great communicator. Definitely underrated.

john-radio 3y ago
Huh, I searched and his brand seems to be about talking to the "nice guys" who are all like "Why do women always pick jocks and not the nice guys like me?" Which is not a stereotype that I associate with compulsive people-pleasing, exactly... Compulsive self-pitying and limerence, more like.
- Cthulhu_ 3y ago
  Nice Guys in that context are often self-identified though, "I'm a nice guy, why do I keep getting rejected?". I'm sure it originated from rejections in the form of "You're a nice guy, but..."
  - rcme 3y ago
    But if you read a book called No More Mr. Nice Guy aren’t you implicitly calling yourself a Nice Guy?
    - jahsome 3y ago
      Interesting theory. If I tell you I read Jurassic Park, does that that mean I'm a brontosaurus?
      - rcme 3y ago
        Presumably you’re not reading Jurassic Park as a self-help book, but if you are, then yes, you’re probably a dinosaur.
        elteto 3y ago
        Not much to add to this thread, except to congratulate you both on such funny little quips. Top of the morning to both of you!
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- xrd 3y ago
  I'm reading/listening to book at the suggestion of a friend who strongly recommended it. I initially balked because of exactly the association you are talking about, but it is a much deeper book and really not about solving that problem. It is a book that asks you to look at your relationship to pleasing people and all the impacts, and it is, so far, worthwhile for me to look more closely at that.
- shanusmagnus 3y ago
  Thank you for teaching me a new word! (limerence)
- electrondood 3y ago
  "nice" just means you don't have personal boundaries, so you go out of your way to try to keep everyone around you comfortable, rather than express your needs, preferences, and emotions and just let other people react as they will. Codepedency is a genderless phenomenon.
- Pamar 3y ago
  I upvoted because you just taught me a new word (Limerence)...
  - meristohm 3y ago
    I learned about this word recently, too. Lowering the barrier for the curious- From Wikipedia: Psychologist Dorothy Tennov coined the term "limerence" for her 1979 book, Love and Limerence: The Experience of Being in Love, to describe a concept that had grown out of her work in the mid-1960s, when she interviewed over 500 people on the topic of love.[1] Limerence, which is not exclusively sexual, has been defined in terms of its potentially inspirational effects and relation to attachment theory. It has been described as being "an involuntary potentially inspiring state of adoration and attachment to a limerent object (LO) involving intrusive and obsessive thoughts, feelings and behaviors from euphoria to despair, contingent on perceived emotional reciprocation". https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limerence https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limerence
paulluuk 3y ago
After a short search for Dr. Robert Glover I'm getting all kinds of "red pill", "pickup advice", "men's rights" links etc, all of which are red flags to me for "incel" kind of stuff. Is that also what I can expect from the book, or did I come to conclusions too quickly?
- torsday 3y ago
  I consider myself a feminist and I strongly recommend the book. It was my therapist that recommended it to me. The term "nice guy" has been co-opted to mean something different (though related) in the meme world.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- _yb2s 3y ago
  Forget the us vs them culture war perspective, and think about this- who are the people attracted to "incel" or "mens rights" stuff and why? These are mostly men - that grew up "people pleasing" and being unable to set boundaries, thinking this made them "good" or "nice guys" and therefore deserving of romantic and financial success, yet it didn't work out like that and they're upset about it. The men's rights stuff tells them they've been sold a lie/raw deal by society, and that they can get power, success, etc. by rejecting that narrative that didn't work for them. Yes, this involves a lot of fear, misogyny, etc. but at it's core there is the message that it's your own fault, and you need to take responsibility: learn to set boundaries, work hard, prioritize and communicate your own needs, develop vulnerability and emotional intelligence, etc. Old self help books that really work are extremely popular in these communities, and these men support and coach each other in working hard to apply these lessons in their own lives. Those books predate "incel" or "mens rights" stuff and themselves have nothing to do with it. I grew up with these same issues, and found advice that helped me because it had been popularized and made visible by these "men's rights" groups. I wholeheartedly reject the misogyny, narcissism, and fear based manipulation these groups use, but I also wholeheartedly accept the idea that most of my problems were caused by myself, and I can do the work to fix them by doing the internal emotional work, learning to set boundaries, etc.
andrei_says_ 3y ago
Can you recommend a particular podcast? Like you, I’ve found interviews with the author an excellent way to get a summary of a book.

john-radio 3y ago

Huh, I searched and his brand seems to be about talking to the "nice guys" who are all like "Why do women always pick jocks and not the nice guys like me?" Which is not a stereotype that I associate with compulsive people-pleasing, exactly... Compulsive self-pitying and limerence, more like.

Cthulhu_ 3y ago
Nice Guys in that context are often self-identified though, "I'm a nice guy, why do I keep getting rejected?". I'm sure it originated from rejections in the form of "You're a nice guy, but..."
- rcme 3y ago
  But if you read a book called No More Mr. Nice Guy aren’t you implicitly calling yourself a Nice Guy?
  - jahsome 3y ago
    Interesting theory. If I tell you I read Jurassic Park, does that that mean I'm a brontosaurus?
    - rcme 3y ago
      Presumably you’re not reading Jurassic Park as a self-help book, but if you are, then yes, you’re probably a dinosaur.
      - elteto 3y ago
        Not much to add to this thread, except to congratulate you both on such funny little quips. Top of the morning to both of you!
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
xrd 3y ago
I'm reading/listening to book at the suggestion of a friend who strongly recommended it. I initially balked because of exactly the association you are talking about, but it is a much deeper book and really not about solving that problem. It is a book that asks you to look at your relationship to pleasing people and all the impacts, and it is, so far, worthwhile for me to look more closely at that.
shanusmagnus 3y ago
Thank you for teaching me a new word! (limerence)
electrondood 3y ago
"nice" just means you don't have personal boundaries, so you go out of your way to try to keep everyone around you comfortable, rather than express your needs, preferences, and emotions and just let other people react as they will. Codepedency is a genderless phenomenon.
Pamar 3y ago
I upvoted because you just taught me a new word (Limerence)...
- meristohm 3y ago
  I learned about this word recently, too. Lowering the barrier for the curious- From Wikipedia: Psychologist Dorothy Tennov coined the term "limerence" for her 1979 book, Love and Limerence: The Experience of Being in Love, to describe a concept that had grown out of her work in the mid-1960s, when she interviewed over 500 people on the topic of love.[1] Limerence, which is not exclusively sexual, has been defined in terms of its potentially inspirational effects and relation to attachment theory. It has been described as being "an involuntary potentially inspiring state of adoration and attachment to a limerent object (LO) involving intrusive and obsessive thoughts, feelings and behaviors from euphoria to despair, contingent on perceived emotional reciprocation". https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limerence https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limerence

paulluuk 3y ago

After a short search for Dr. Robert Glover I'm getting all kinds of "red pill", "pickup advice", "men's rights" links etc, all of which are red flags to me for "incel" kind of stuff. Is that also what I can expect from the book, or did I come to conclusions too quickly?

torsday 3y ago
I consider myself a feminist and I strongly recommend the book. It was my therapist that recommended it to me. The term "nice guy" has been co-opted to mean something different (though related) in the meme world.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
_yb2s 3y ago
Forget the us vs them culture war perspective, and think about this- who are the people attracted to "incel" or "mens rights" stuff and why? These are mostly men - that grew up "people pleasing" and being unable to set boundaries, thinking this made them "good" or "nice guys" and therefore deserving of romantic and financial success, yet it didn't work out like that and they're upset about it. The men's rights stuff tells them they've been sold a lie/raw deal by society, and that they can get power, success, etc. by rejecting that narrative that didn't work for them. Yes, this involves a lot of fear, misogyny, etc. but at it's core there is the message that it's your own fault, and you need to take responsibility: learn to set boundaries, work hard, prioritize and communicate your own needs, develop vulnerability and emotional intelligence, etc. Old self help books that really work are extremely popular in these communities, and these men support and coach each other in working hard to apply these lessons in their own lives. Those books predate "incel" or "mens rights" stuff and themselves have nothing to do with it. I grew up with these same issues, and found advice that helped me because it had been popularized and made visible by these "men's rights" groups. I wholeheartedly reject the misogyny, narcissism, and fear based manipulation these groups use, but I also wholeheartedly accept the idea that most of my problems were caused by myself, and I can do the work to fix them by doing the internal emotional work, learning to set boundaries, etc.

andrei_says_ 3y ago

Can you recommend a particular podcast? Like you, I’ve found interviews with the author an excellent way to get a summary of a book.