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I suspect this is because many poor countries are used to intermittent power, and so renewables are acceptable. In developed countries, continuous power is expe

I suspect this is because many poor countries are used to intermittent power, and so renewables are acceptable. In developed countries, continuous power is expected. It may be luxurious, but if power is interrupted too often the populace will reject renewables. There's lots of gas plant construction, even in poor countries https://globalenergymonitor.org/report/boom-and-bust-gas-2022/ https://globalenergymonitor.org/report/boom-and-bust-gas-202...

epistasis 3y ago
That has nothing to do with it, as renewable power is being deployed extremely quickly in developing countries too. Intermittent generators does not mean an intermittent grid, and in fact by having fewer single points of failure, and ensuring that grid operators are used to dynamic dispatch from intermittent generators, grids like Germany's have become more reliable with the addition of intermittent generators. It's like ~10 years ago when web apps went from large architectures with a few boxes to cloud-scale operators where random failure was expected. By planning for lots of small, less reliable components, overall reliability increased.
- brutusborn 3y ago
  Got any data for German reliability? Is it not just because they get backup from French nuclear and they have turned their coal plants back on? I.e. renewables have made things worse?
  - epistasis 3y ago
    It's been years since I followed the translations of documents, but a web search will turn up lots of documentation, like this top hit from a source that I haven't used before, but which matches what I have found in the past: > The indicator most often used to describe grid reliability is the average power outage duration experienced by each customer in a year, a metric known by the tongue-tying name of “System Average Interruption Duration Index” (SAIDI). Based on this metric, Germany — where renewables supply nearly half of the country’s electricity — boasts a grid that is one of the most reliable in Europe and the world. In 2020, SAIDI was just 0.25 hours in Germany. Only Liechtenstein (0.08 hours), and Finland and Switzerland (0.2 hours), did better in Europe, where 2020 electricity generation was 38 percent renewable (ahead of the world’s 29 percent). Countries like France (0.35 hours) and Sweden (0.61 hours) — both far more reliant on nuclear power — did worse, for various reasons. https://e360.yale.edu/features/three-myths-about-renewable-energy-and-the-grid-debunked https://e360.yale.edu/features/three-myths-about-renewable-e... Nuclear is typically not a good thing for reliability. They are big single points of failure, and France was less reliable than Germany. Similarly, Texas relied on nuclear during their massive cold snaps and that foolishness killed people. It takes better planning than "nuclear is baseload" to build a reliable grid.
    - brutusborn 3y ago
      This comparison really exaggerates the differences, the measures are basically the same. If you look at the ranges over 2015-2020, France ranged from 0.17:0.25 and Germany ranged from 0.14:0.46. Top 11% in 2020 vs top 14% of countries with data. It's a moot point anyway, since renewables don't stabilize Germany's grid: coal and gas power plants (and imported electricity) do. Renewables are cheap if they are a small proportion of sources or the grid is stabilized by another source. If you need storage the cost simply explodes.

epistasis 3y ago

That has nothing to do with it, as renewable power is being deployed extremely quickly in developing countries too. Intermittent generators does not mean an intermittent grid, and in fact by having fewer single points of failure, and ensuring that grid operators are used to dynamic dispatch from intermittent generators, grids like Germany's have become more reliable with the addition of intermittent generators. It's like ~10 years ago when web apps went from large architectures with a few boxes to cloud-scale operators where random failure was expected. By planning for lots of small, less reliable components, overall reliability increased.

brutusborn 3y ago
Got any data for German reliability? Is it not just because they get backup from French nuclear and they have turned their coal plants back on? I.e. renewables have made things worse?
- epistasis 3y ago
  It's been years since I followed the translations of documents, but a web search will turn up lots of documentation, like this top hit from a source that I haven't used before, but which matches what I have found in the past: > The indicator most often used to describe grid reliability is the average power outage duration experienced by each customer in a year, a metric known by the tongue-tying name of “System Average Interruption Duration Index” (SAIDI). Based on this metric, Germany — where renewables supply nearly half of the country’s electricity — boasts a grid that is one of the most reliable in Europe and the world. In 2020, SAIDI was just 0.25 hours in Germany. Only Liechtenstein (0.08 hours), and Finland and Switzerland (0.2 hours), did better in Europe, where 2020 electricity generation was 38 percent renewable (ahead of the world’s 29 percent). Countries like France (0.35 hours) and Sweden (0.61 hours) — both far more reliant on nuclear power — did worse, for various reasons. https://e360.yale.edu/features/three-myths-about-renewable-energy-and-the-grid-debunked https://e360.yale.edu/features/three-myths-about-renewable-e... Nuclear is typically not a good thing for reliability. They are big single points of failure, and France was less reliable than Germany. Similarly, Texas relied on nuclear during their massive cold snaps and that foolishness killed people. It takes better planning than "nuclear is baseload" to build a reliable grid.
  - brutusborn 3y ago
    This comparison really exaggerates the differences, the measures are basically the same. If you look at the ranges over 2015-2020, France ranged from 0.17:0.25 and Germany ranged from 0.14:0.46. Top 11% in 2020 vs top 14% of countries with data. It's a moot point anyway, since renewables don't stabilize Germany's grid: coal and gas power plants (and imported electricity) do. Renewables are cheap if they are a small proportion of sources or the grid is stabilized by another source. If you need storage the cost simply explodes.