3 ms·

There are almost endless modes where life could develop in much more different and harsher conditions. More radiation? Well stronger magnetic fields for those.

There are almost endless modes where life could develop in much more different and harsher conditions. More radiation? Well stronger magnetic fields for those. Too much space debris randomly popping into star systems? Have a big vacuum cleaner like Jupiter or two (or five). Not that common but if you have 500 billion stars many unprobable things can and will happen. Life as we see here on Earth is extremely adaptable. Give it harsh environment, and unless its too much immediately it will adapt and actually take advantage out of it (ie too much radiation? well we can mutate to our ideal desired form even quicker). Also, 1 billion years doesn't mean much in this cosmic scale. But imagine if civilization like ours had that much headstart. Well, you can't imagine, and neither can I in same way homo erectus couldn't imagine CERN particle accelerator or black holes.

TheOtherHobbes 3y ago
It's an even bigger gap than that. Homo Erectus takes us back around 100 million years. A billion years gets us to very simple multicellular life which can't do imagination at all. Or logic. Or thinking. Or creativity. Or much of anything else. So... a billion year old civ is going to have very fundamental abilities which are completely beyond our comprehension. It's like Dunning Kruger on a cosmic scale. Except that with Dunning Kruger there's usually some potential to learn a way out of ignorance. Here there isn't. Not only can we not do it, or understand why we need to do it, we can't see - never mind reach - the first rung of it.
- bmitc 3y ago
  > So... a billion year old civ is going to have very fundamental abilities which are completely beyond our comprehension. Maybe not. There's no evidence that species can continually adapt and evolve to higher levels of intelligence. Humans are already hitting limits for how much we can think, figure out, etc. But by that same token, maybe so. Humans aren't exactly the cream of the crop when it comes to higher critical thinking and emotional intelligence. Is there any biological research that takes a look at a single or sequence of species maintaining civilizations lasting x amount of years?
  - throwaway1D 3y ago
    Natural evolution may have its limits, but we don't yet know how much we can improve by artificial means. We will have the technology to alter the DNA to increase our intelligence significantly. There are limits, but I don't think it is likely that human beings are at the peak of what is biological possible. - When we reach the biological limit, we may extend ourselves by merging with technology. Our brains might be connected to a computing device that amplifies our capabilities. It may be so seamless that when answering a question, you won't notice if the knowledge was stored in your physical brain or retrieved from a central archive.
    - midoridensha 3y ago
      >- When we reach the biological limit, we may extend ourselves by merging with technology. In the near term, I just wish they'd figure out how to make better mechanical parts for humans. Our natural joints suck, particularly knees and ankles. It really shouldn't be that hard to make mechanical replacements for various parts of the human body.
  - Nevermark 3y ago
    > Humans are already hitting limits for how much we can think, figure out, etc. There is zero evidence of this. What would that mean? Once our intelligence encompassed communication then it began growing culturally. I.e. we are able to treat math and engineering as no biggies, despite humans needing millennia to realize "nothing" could be a number called "zero". It's fair to say the 21st century shows no signs of intelligence slowing down. We keep finding ways to think more simply but more effectively.
- midoridensha 3y ago
  >Homo Erectus takes us back around 100 million years. Huh? Where did you get that crazy number? 100M years ago was the age of the dinosaurs. Homo erectus was around somewhere between 250K and 1.6M years ago.
  - dotancohen 3y ago
    He probably meant 100 thousand years.

TheOtherHobbes 3y ago

It's an even bigger gap than that. Homo Erectus takes us back around 100 million years. A billion years gets us to very simple multicellular life which can't do imagination at all. Or logic. Or thinking. Or creativity. Or much of anything else. So... a billion year old civ is going to have very fundamental abilities which are completely beyond our comprehension. It's like Dunning Kruger on a cosmic scale. Except that with Dunning Kruger there's usually some potential to learn a way out of ignorance. Here there isn't. Not only can we not do it, or understand why we need to do it, we can't see - never mind reach - the first rung of it.

bmitc 3y ago
> So... a billion year old civ is going to have very fundamental abilities which are completely beyond our comprehension. Maybe not. There's no evidence that species can continually adapt and evolve to higher levels of intelligence. Humans are already hitting limits for how much we can think, figure out, etc. But by that same token, maybe so. Humans aren't exactly the cream of the crop when it comes to higher critical thinking and emotional intelligence. Is there any biological research that takes a look at a single or sequence of species maintaining civilizations lasting x amount of years?
- throwaway1D 3y ago
  Natural evolution may have its limits, but we don't yet know how much we can improve by artificial means. We will have the technology to alter the DNA to increase our intelligence significantly. There are limits, but I don't think it is likely that human beings are at the peak of what is biological possible. - When we reach the biological limit, we may extend ourselves by merging with technology. Our brains might be connected to a computing device that amplifies our capabilities. It may be so seamless that when answering a question, you won't notice if the knowledge was stored in your physical brain or retrieved from a central archive.
  - midoridensha 3y ago
    >- When we reach the biological limit, we may extend ourselves by merging with technology. In the near term, I just wish they'd figure out how to make better mechanical parts for humans. Our natural joints suck, particularly knees and ankles. It really shouldn't be that hard to make mechanical replacements for various parts of the human body.
- Nevermark 3y ago
  > Humans are already hitting limits for how much we can think, figure out, etc. There is zero evidence of this. What would that mean? Once our intelligence encompassed communication then it began growing culturally. I.e. we are able to treat math and engineering as no biggies, despite humans needing millennia to realize "nothing" could be a number called "zero". It's fair to say the 21st century shows no signs of intelligence slowing down. We keep finding ways to think more simply but more effectively.
midoridensha 3y ago
>Homo Erectus takes us back around 100 million years. Huh? Where did you get that crazy number? 100M years ago was the age of the dinosaurs. Homo erectus was around somewhere between 250K and 1.6M years ago.
- dotancohen 3y ago
  He probably meant 100 thousand years.