6 ms·

As macOS user, I'd rather they use XDG than the "standard" macOS directories. Maybe there's a point to be made to use the standard if the XDG variables aren't s

As macOS user, I'd rather they use XDG than the "standard" macOS directories. Maybe there's a point to be made to use the standard if the XDG variables aren't set, but I'd generally avoid that for CLI apps. Having everything under ~/.config is more convenient.

b0afc375b5 3y ago
Agreed. "Application\ Support" looks subjectively disgusting to me. It's the only path on my configuration with spaces. I have to use it because that's where vscode settings.json is placed.
- moe 3y ago
  Rest assured this is not subjective. It is objectively disgusting.
- easton 3y ago
  If it helps, it may have been for a good reason. Microsoft used to name the folder that stored user directories "Documents and Settings" so developers would be forced to make sure they could handle paths with spaces in them. Now, they call that folder "Users", and I had to make sure when I set up my Windows install that my name didn't have spaces in it so a bunch of apps didn't get screwy.
fjfuvucucuc 3y ago
Xdg isnt just config. Using .config (xdg config) on Mac is super weird. Xdg is also, .cache (xdg cache dir) for data that can be cleared on reboot allowing you to use tempfs for it (of course you can't because a bunch of shit uses it as a persistent cache for things they should be putting in .local/share/. (Xdg data dir). This whole mess is so utterly fucked I gave up caring and just let the mess be.
- maleldil 3y ago
  > Using .config (xdg config) on Mac is super weird. Why? Using it makes macOS more similar to Linux, which I think is a good thing. It surely makes it easier to share configuration files between Macs and Linux machines. Honestly, I don't see a single upside to using macOS's specific directories over .config/.cache/.local.
  - halostatue 3y ago
    There are operating system processes in place to help keep `~/Library/Caches` smaller (or at least somewhat constrained). They are not there for `~/.cache`.
- yencabulator 3y ago
  I don't see anything saying that clearing ~/.cache on every boot is expected behavior. I see lots of real world behavior of using ~/.cache as a multi-gigabyte download cache you would not want to lose regularly.
  - fjfuvucucuc 3y ago
    Cache is for user specific, non essential data. I'd prefer a multigigabyte download went in state or data dirs if you don't want to lose it regularly.
otikik 3y ago
+1 to this. I have been a MacOS-exclusive user for more than a decade now and `~/Library/Application\ Support/` is simply ugly and, dare I say, un-Apple like. It has a Window's "My Documents" vibe going on.
- anthk 3y ago
  Not Apple, but that comes from NeXTStep. GNUStep users under Linux/BSD will have it too. And, OFC, WindowMaker users.
  - otikik 3y ago
    Interesting, I had no idea.
dividedbyzero 3y ago
Big +1, macOS has a lot of UX wins, but their config directories aren't one. Also XDG allows me to have at least some things in the same place on Linux and macOS, which may be a very niche need, but still something I appreciate.
soraminazuki 3y ago
I second this. There's no reason unix tools should follow convention designed for macOS GUI applications. I also prefer XDG because it separates between XDG_DATA_HOME, XDG_STATE_HOME, and XDG_RUNTIME_DIR. The macOS convention does not.
halostatue 3y ago
I agree, but in the context of the original complaint — not respecting user and operating system locations — following XDG is anti-user. I prefer `~/.config`, but it’s not where such configurations go on the Mac (and there are multiple applications that do it differently).

b0afc375b5 3y ago

Agreed. "Application\ Support" looks subjectively disgusting to me. It's the only path on my configuration with spaces. I have to use it because that's where vscode settings.json is placed.

moe 3y ago
Rest assured this is not subjective. It is objectively disgusting.
easton 3y ago
If it helps, it may have been for a good reason. Microsoft used to name the folder that stored user directories "Documents and Settings" so developers would be forced to make sure they could handle paths with spaces in them. Now, they call that folder "Users", and I had to make sure when I set up my Windows install that my name didn't have spaces in it so a bunch of apps didn't get screwy.

fjfuvucucuc 3y ago

Xdg isnt just config. Using .config (xdg config) on Mac is super weird. Xdg is also, .cache (xdg cache dir) for data that can be cleared on reboot allowing you to use tempfs for it (of course you can't because a bunch of shit uses it as a persistent cache for things they should be putting in .local/share/. (Xdg data dir). This whole mess is so utterly fucked I gave up caring and just let the mess be.

maleldil 3y ago
> Using .config (xdg config) on Mac is super weird. Why? Using it makes macOS more similar to Linux, which I think is a good thing. It surely makes it easier to share configuration files between Macs and Linux machines. Honestly, I don't see a single upside to using macOS's specific directories over .config/.cache/.local.
- halostatue 3y ago
  There are operating system processes in place to help keep `~/Library/Caches` smaller (or at least somewhat constrained). They are not there for `~/.cache`.
yencabulator 3y ago
I don't see anything saying that clearing ~/.cache on every boot is expected behavior. I see lots of real world behavior of using ~/.cache as a multi-gigabyte download cache you would not want to lose regularly.
- fjfuvucucuc 3y ago
  Cache is for user specific, non essential data. I'd prefer a multigigabyte download went in state or data dirs if you don't want to lose it regularly.

otikik 3y ago

+1 to this. I have been a MacOS-exclusive user for more than a decade now and `~/Library/Application\ Support/` is simply ugly and, dare I say, un-Apple like. It has a Window's "My Documents" vibe going on.

anthk 3y ago
Not Apple, but that comes from NeXTStep. GNUStep users under Linux/BSD will have it too. And, OFC, WindowMaker users.
- otikik 3y ago
  Interesting, I had no idea.

dividedbyzero 3y ago

Big +1, macOS has a lot of UX wins, but their config directories aren't one. Also XDG allows me to have at least some things in the same place on Linux and macOS, which may be a very niche need, but still something I appreciate.

soraminazuki 3y ago

I second this. There's no reason unix tools should follow convention designed for macOS GUI applications. I also prefer XDG because it separates between XDG_DATA_HOME, XDG_STATE_HOME, and XDG_RUNTIME_DIR. The macOS convention does not.

halostatue 3y ago

I agree, but in the context of the original complaint — not respecting user and operating system locations — following XDG is anti-user. I prefer `~/.config`, but it’s not where such configurations go on the Mac (and there are multiple applications that do it differently).