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Yeah, they have been pumping out quite a few pointless headliners recently. My favorite is: Volvo’s heavy-duty electric truck runs 12 hours a day with one c

Yeah, they have been pumping out quite a few pointless headliners recently. My favorite is: Volvo’s heavy-duty electric truck runs 12 hours a day with one charge break, can haul 74 tons -- Jun 29 2023 I also see there is a bit too much hype around LFP's by Tesla's fanbois who seems to believe that LFP must be the holy grail in the battery world b/c Tesla uses them.

Kirby64 3y ago
LFP has a lot of hype for good reasons: * Charge cycles before degradation are much better (typically 1000-3000 cycles, depending on how you cycle it) * Can be charged to 100% without causing stress on the battery * Extremely safe; you basically can't catch it on fire... unlike NMC batteries The main downside is that you aren't supposed to charge it when the battery is below freezing, so this new tech that allows -10C charging would be a big improvement. It also has lower energy density vs. NMC batteries. The rest of the claims have pretty much been done before, honestly.
- tooltalk 3y ago
  >> LFP has a lot of hype for good reasons: * Charge cycles before degradation are much better (typically 1000-3000 cycles, depending on how you cycle it) << Sure, but that's in ESS setting. We don't know anything about LFP's lifecyle in EV profile with higher c-rates. >> * Can be charged to 100% without causing stress on the battery << All lithium batteries, including LFPs, degrade faster under high SOC in both ESS and EV settings. Tesla recommends charging to 100% full periodically because BMS needs to be recalibrated frequently to estimate accurate SOC, so to avoid potential safety and cell imbalance issues. According to Cleanwatt, citing Tessie's tracking data, Tesla's LFP EV's lose first 10% of range/battery capacity twice as fast as non-LFP batteries -- ie to 90% SOH. Recurent's study on Tesla's battery range degradation seems to corraborate this finding. >> * Extremely safe; you basically can't catch it on fire... unlike NMC batteries << LFP has lower energy density and is heavier -- likewise LFP is mostly limited to entry-level, low-range EVs with lower c-rates or stationary energey storage system (ESS). It helps reduce thermal runaway in LFP, but they catch fire no problem. In 2022, two firemen died putting out LFP ESS fire at a shopping mall in Beijing, China. BYD also has PHEV fire problem with their blade LFPs operating at 3-5 c-rates. LFP's key benefit at this point is their cost -- LFP has been fully commodified and mass-produced at scale under China's state industrial policy, but that's with a caveat, LFP's price competitiveness goes away when the prices of lithium/cobalt are lower than that of lithium, which has been kept artifically high by China (by shutting down lithium refineries) after its price collapse earlier this year. POST: another caveat, LFP recyclying is also uneconomical, as there is no valuable, useful metal to recover in spent cathodes. The cost of recycling LFP would have to be subsidized by either gov't or EV OEMs.
  - tooltalk 3y ago
    correction: LFP's price competitiveness goes away when the prices of nickel/cobalt are lower than that of lithium...

Kirby64 3y ago

LFP has a lot of hype for good reasons: * Charge cycles before degradation are much better (typically 1000-3000 cycles, depending on how you cycle it) * Can be charged to 100% without causing stress on the battery * Extremely safe; you basically can't catch it on fire... unlike NMC batteries The main downside is that you aren't supposed to charge it when the battery is below freezing, so this new tech that allows -10C charging would be a big improvement. It also has lower energy density vs. NMC batteries. The rest of the claims have pretty much been done before, honestly.

tooltalk 3y ago
>> LFP has a lot of hype for good reasons: * Charge cycles before degradation are much better (typically 1000-3000 cycles, depending on how you cycle it) << Sure, but that's in ESS setting. We don't know anything about LFP's lifecyle in EV profile with higher c-rates. >> * Can be charged to 100% without causing stress on the battery << All lithium batteries, including LFPs, degrade faster under high SOC in both ESS and EV settings. Tesla recommends charging to 100% full periodically because BMS needs to be recalibrated frequently to estimate accurate SOC, so to avoid potential safety and cell imbalance issues. According to Cleanwatt, citing Tessie's tracking data, Tesla's LFP EV's lose first 10% of range/battery capacity twice as fast as non-LFP batteries -- ie to 90% SOH. Recurent's study on Tesla's battery range degradation seems to corraborate this finding. >> * Extremely safe; you basically can't catch it on fire... unlike NMC batteries << LFP has lower energy density and is heavier -- likewise LFP is mostly limited to entry-level, low-range EVs with lower c-rates or stationary energey storage system (ESS). It helps reduce thermal runaway in LFP, but they catch fire no problem. In 2022, two firemen died putting out LFP ESS fire at a shopping mall in Beijing, China. BYD also has PHEV fire problem with their blade LFPs operating at 3-5 c-rates. LFP's key benefit at this point is their cost -- LFP has been fully commodified and mass-produced at scale under China's state industrial policy, but that's with a caveat, LFP's price competitiveness goes away when the prices of lithium/cobalt are lower than that of lithium, which has been kept artifically high by China (by shutting down lithium refineries) after its price collapse earlier this year. POST: another caveat, LFP recyclying is also uneconomical, as there is no valuable, useful metal to recover in spent cathodes. The cost of recycling LFP would have to be subsidized by either gov't or EV OEMs.
- tooltalk 3y ago
  correction: LFP's price competitiveness goes away when the prices of nickel/cobalt are lower than that of lithium...