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The issue is not what they are doing but who is doing it. The scale and scope of applications like TikTok means that China can broadcast a message to basically

The issue is not what they are doing but who is doing it. The scale and scope of applications like TikTok means that China can broadcast a message to basically all Americans 16-24 or so. And not just an announcement… they can use the algorithm and the feedback they receive to create groupthink for whatever they want. This would have been an absolute nightmare scenario during the Cold War. Imagine the US decides to start a war with China over, say, Taiwan. China will undoubtedly try to use TikTok to spread anti American sentiment and turn the youth against their own government.

mantas 3y ago
Sounds like Vietnam…
stickfigure 3y ago
> Imagine the US decides to start a war with China over, say, Taiwan. This is such a weird phrasing. The only people threatening to start a war is the leadership of China.
- themagician 3y ago
  It’s really not. The US has a little bit of a history of starting wars. Also, I’m not sure if you’re aware, but you might want to look up what the US is doing in the Pacific right now. It not out territory. It’s not our fight. We should be minding our own business focusing on our own citizens, not militarizing the Pacific and denying a billion people access to advanced microchips every way possible.
  - cscurmudgeon 3y ago
    So people in Taiwan have no say in what happens to them? > We should be minding our own business focusing on our own citizens, Yes, and part of that includes highly overdue reciprocal actions against a nation that has denied our citizens' businesses from flourishing there.
    - pseg134 3y ago
      In a real sense they do not have a say in what happens to them. The is plenty of aggressions from both sides to go around. Everyone wants this eventually, the only dispute is when it should go hot.
      - rightbyte 3y ago
        > Everyone wants this eventually, the only dispute is when it should go hot. "Everyone"? A likely outcome in a war between China and the US most of us reading here will end up dead or worse. I don't understand what has happened. It is like the elites have become mad and people have just stopped caring and shut their eyes.
    - avgcorrection 3y ago
      > So people in Taiwan have no say in what happens to them? This is just hiding behind Taiwan unless you're so naive that you think that state actors help other states out of the goodness of their hearts. Is it the US calling the shots or not? If so then no, Taiwan clearly doesn't have a say since everything hinges on the US' power.
      - stickfigure 3y ago
        > state actors help other states out of the goodness of their hearts In democracies, politicians have to care about what the public thinks. Americans as a whole are extremely judgmental about moral issues, and any president that stands by and allows 25 million Taiwanese to be crushed under the boot of the CCP will go down in history as the biggest coward since Neville Chamberlain. By and large yes, I do think democracies tend to operate (highly imperfectly) out of the goodness of their hearts (as they perceive it).
        avgcorrection 3y ago
        > In democracies, politicians have to care about what the public thinks. The US is not a democracy for 90% of Americans (Princeton study). > Americans as a whole are extremely judgmental about moral issues, and any president that stands by and allows 25 million Taiwanese to be crushed under the boot of the CCP will go down in history as the biggest coward since Neville Chamberlain. Sure. Except America will support “bad guys” and oppose “good guys” according to what suits them (like natural resources). Like how Saddam Hussein was an ally of the US until he went against their interests. The American people protested Reagan's interference in Latin America. That made them stop doing it. Right? No. They just went clandestine. > By and large yes, I do think democracies tend to operate (highly imperfectly) out of the goodness of their hearts (as they perceive it). Every post-WWII president up to 2003 (at least) could be indicted under the Nuremberg principles if they were upheld.[1] It's easy to have good intentions according to yourself when there are no one else around who can challenge your worldview. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BXtgq0Nhsc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BXtgq0Nhsc
hot_gril 3y ago
> This would have been an absolute nightmare scenario during the Cold War. Imagine the US decides to start a war with China over, say, Taiwan. China will undoubtedly try to use TikTok to spread anti American sentiment and turn the youth against their own government. But there isn't a war right now. If one were to start, TikTok would probably get banned/deplatformed as quickly as RT did during the Ukraine invasion.

mantas 3y ago

Sounds like Vietnam…

stickfigure 3y ago

> Imagine the US decides to start a war with China over, say, Taiwan. This is such a weird phrasing. The only people threatening to start a war is the leadership of China.

themagician 3y ago
It’s really not. The US has a little bit of a history of starting wars. Also, I’m not sure if you’re aware, but you might want to look up what the US is doing in the Pacific right now. It not out territory. It’s not our fight. We should be minding our own business focusing on our own citizens, not militarizing the Pacific and denying a billion people access to advanced microchips every way possible.
- cscurmudgeon 3y ago
  So people in Taiwan have no say in what happens to them? > We should be minding our own business focusing on our own citizens, Yes, and part of that includes highly overdue reciprocal actions against a nation that has denied our citizens' businesses from flourishing there.
  - pseg134 3y ago
    In a real sense they do not have a say in what happens to them. The is plenty of aggressions from both sides to go around. Everyone wants this eventually, the only dispute is when it should go hot.
    - rightbyte 3y ago
      > Everyone wants this eventually, the only dispute is when it should go hot. "Everyone"? A likely outcome in a war between China and the US most of us reading here will end up dead or worse. I don't understand what has happened. It is like the elites have become mad and people have just stopped caring and shut their eyes.
  - avgcorrection 3y ago
    > So people in Taiwan have no say in what happens to them? This is just hiding behind Taiwan unless you're so naive that you think that state actors help other states out of the goodness of their hearts. Is it the US calling the shots or not? If so then no, Taiwan clearly doesn't have a say since everything hinges on the US' power.
    - stickfigure 3y ago
      > state actors help other states out of the goodness of their hearts In democracies, politicians have to care about what the public thinks. Americans as a whole are extremely judgmental about moral issues, and any president that stands by and allows 25 million Taiwanese to be crushed under the boot of the CCP will go down in history as the biggest coward since Neville Chamberlain. By and large yes, I do think democracies tend to operate (highly imperfectly) out of the goodness of their hearts (as they perceive it).
      - avgcorrection 3y ago
        > In democracies, politicians have to care about what the public thinks. The US is not a democracy for 90% of Americans (Princeton study). > Americans as a whole are extremely judgmental about moral issues, and any president that stands by and allows 25 million Taiwanese to be crushed under the boot of the CCP will go down in history as the biggest coward since Neville Chamberlain. Sure. Except America will support “bad guys” and oppose “good guys” according to what suits them (like natural resources). Like how Saddam Hussein was an ally of the US until he went against their interests. The American people protested Reagan's interference in Latin America. That made them stop doing it. Right? No. They just went clandestine. > By and large yes, I do think democracies tend to operate (highly imperfectly) out of the goodness of their hearts (as they perceive it). Every post-WWII president up to 2003 (at least) could be indicted under the Nuremberg principles if they were upheld.[1] It's easy to have good intentions according to yourself when there are no one else around who can challenge your worldview. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BXtgq0Nhsc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BXtgq0Nhsc

hot_gril 3y ago

> This would have been an absolute nightmare scenario during the Cold War. Imagine the US decides to start a war with China over, say, Taiwan. China will undoubtedly try to use TikTok to spread anti American sentiment and turn the youth against their own government. But there isn't a war right now. If one were to start, TikTok would probably get banned/deplatformed as quickly as RT did during the Ukraine invasion.