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Absolutely. I remember reading some biography about him that my dad bought me when I was in high school. I was like, shit finally I'll figure out what made this

Absolutely. I remember reading some biography about him that my dad bought me when I was in high school. I was like, shit finally I'll figure out what made this guy so great. You come out the other end only thinking, wow. What a fucking asshole. A talented asshole, but an absolute piece of work

simonh 3y ago
Dude was 19 at the time. People change, I know I have.
- Retric 3y ago
  Sure, except he got worse.
  - simonh 3y ago
    Ive seen and read multiple interviews with people he worked on later in his career, and that doesn't seem to be their experience.
- saghm 3y ago
  Sure, but there's obviously a spectrum to how people act due to a lack of maturity and wisdom, and it's not obvious to me that Jobs fell into the normal range of immature behavior rather than being much more conceited and selfish than average. It's also not like he didn't have plenty of time to recognize his mistakes and try to make amends and act differently going forward, and it doesn't really seem like he ever grew in that regard.
  - simonh 3y ago
    "One of the frustrating things, and many of us probably experiences this in their lives, is that as you grow and mature you change, but people are constantly treating you as though you are still the same person you were when you were 18 or 19." - Steve Jobs.
    - saghm 3y ago
      I find it hard to believe that most people he interacted with in the last 2-3 decades of his life as a wealthy, famous CEO treated him the same way he was treated as an unknown young adult. Regardless, it's not clear to me that this is much of a rebuttal to what I said above; I made the assertion that he didn't stop acting selfishly later in life, and a pithy quote doesn't demonstrate any evidence of better behavior.
      - simonh 3y ago
        Look up the interviews with people who actually worked for him and with him on YouTube. He successfully recruited and retained top talent, and inspired fierce loyalty at Apple, NeXT and Pixar. Hard to do if you treat people unfairly.
WalterBright 3y ago
How many of us would withstand such a relentless investigation into every aspect of our lives?
grecy 3y ago
> wow. What a fucking asshole. A talented asshole, but an absolute piece of work That's great! Learn from him - emulate and improve on what made him talented and successful, and do less of what made him an asshole. What a great person to learn from!
- neilk 3y ago
  Wow. Are you one of those people who posts on LinkedIn about how they'd turn down a million dollars for the chance to wait on a billionaire's table? Please. Steve Jobs is only famous because he was an asshole. He did have other qualities, including that of recognizing talent and inspiring them. His interest in counterculture probably served him well in other ways, but that was not particularly unusual for his time. Steve Jobs' path to being a billionaire required the sheer gall to steal others' work, and bully employees into burnout, over and over again.
  - grecy 3y ago
    na, I'm one of those people who realize there is a lot of nuance to the world, and there's nothing to gain by just painting everything black and white.
  - qwytw 3y ago
    > Steve Jobs is only famous because he was an asshole Are you saying that he only managed to achieve what he did because he's an asshole? Because I think more people know of him because of what he did with the Mac and "creating" the iPod, iPhone and iPad. > Steve Jobs' path to being a billionaire He wasn't even that wealthy by tech billionaire standards.
housemusicfan 3y ago
Bill Burr has a pretty unique take on Jobs, reducing him to "he told other people what to invent": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3s-qZsjK8I https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3s-qZsjK8I
- zoky 3y ago
  If you’re good enough at it, “telling other people what to invent” may be the single most marketable skill in the history of humanity. I wish someone would tell me what to invent.
  - housemusicfan 3y ago
    There is no shortage of creative people in the world. Giving them a voice, especially in a large company, on the other hand....
    - wwtrv 3y ago
      And there are some valid reasons for that, most "creative" people not very good at creating stuff that's actually useful for other people.
- refurb 3y ago
  That’s actually an incredible skill few people have.

simonh 3y ago

Dude was 19 at the time. People change, I know I have.

Retric 3y ago
Sure, except he got worse.
- simonh 3y ago
  Ive seen and read multiple interviews with people he worked on later in his career, and that doesn't seem to be their experience.
saghm 3y ago
Sure, but there's obviously a spectrum to how people act due to a lack of maturity and wisdom, and it's not obvious to me that Jobs fell into the normal range of immature behavior rather than being much more conceited and selfish than average. It's also not like he didn't have plenty of time to recognize his mistakes and try to make amends and act differently going forward, and it doesn't really seem like he ever grew in that regard.
- simonh 3y ago
  "One of the frustrating things, and many of us probably experiences this in their lives, is that as you grow and mature you change, but people are constantly treating you as though you are still the same person you were when you were 18 or 19." - Steve Jobs.
  - saghm 3y ago
    I find it hard to believe that most people he interacted with in the last 2-3 decades of his life as a wealthy, famous CEO treated him the same way he was treated as an unknown young adult. Regardless, it's not clear to me that this is much of a rebuttal to what I said above; I made the assertion that he didn't stop acting selfishly later in life, and a pithy quote doesn't demonstrate any evidence of better behavior.
    - simonh 3y ago
      Look up the interviews with people who actually worked for him and with him on YouTube. He successfully recruited and retained top talent, and inspired fierce loyalty at Apple, NeXT and Pixar. Hard to do if you treat people unfairly.

WalterBright 3y ago

How many of us would withstand such a relentless investigation into every aspect of our lives?

grecy 3y ago

> wow. What a fucking asshole. A talented asshole, but an absolute piece of work That's great! Learn from him - emulate and improve on what made him talented and successful, and do less of what made him an asshole. What a great person to learn from!

neilk 3y ago
Wow. Are you one of those people who posts on LinkedIn about how they'd turn down a million dollars for the chance to wait on a billionaire's table? Please. Steve Jobs is only famous because he was an asshole. He did have other qualities, including that of recognizing talent and inspiring them. His interest in counterculture probably served him well in other ways, but that was not particularly unusual for his time. Steve Jobs' path to being a billionaire required the sheer gall to steal others' work, and bully employees into burnout, over and over again.
- grecy 3y ago
  na, I'm one of those people who realize there is a lot of nuance to the world, and there's nothing to gain by just painting everything black and white.
- qwytw 3y ago
  > Steve Jobs is only famous because he was an asshole Are you saying that he only managed to achieve what he did because he's an asshole? Because I think more people know of him because of what he did with the Mac and "creating" the iPod, iPhone and iPad. > Steve Jobs' path to being a billionaire He wasn't even that wealthy by tech billionaire standards.

housemusicfan 3y ago

Bill Burr has a pretty unique take on Jobs, reducing him to "he told other people what to invent": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3s-qZsjK8I https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3s-qZsjK8I

zoky 3y ago
If you’re good enough at it, “telling other people what to invent” may be the single most marketable skill in the history of humanity. I wish someone would tell me what to invent.
- housemusicfan 3y ago
  There is no shortage of creative people in the world. Giving them a voice, especially in a large company, on the other hand....
  - wwtrv 3y ago
    And there are some valid reasons for that, most "creative" people not very good at creating stuff that's actually useful for other people.
refurb 3y ago
That’s actually an incredible skill few people have.