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I don’t think you’ve ever been the level of our-of-shape that many people are. I have experienced the full spectrum from trained-athlete to alcoholic obesity, a

I don’t think you’ve ever been the level of our-of-shape that many people are. I have experienced the full spectrum from trained-athlete to alcoholic obesity, and there is a level of out-of-shape you can be where going for a half mile walk will be physically painful for more than a day. It really feels miserable. The good news is that it can be overcome.

onlyrealcuzzo 3y ago
> I don’t think you’ve ever been the level of our-of-shape that many people are. No, I haven't. And I fail to see how being out-of-shape is a comfort and not a discomfort. I do agree that we can't force morbidly obese people onto bikes. But the narrative amongst healthy people has got to change that their life would be DRAMATICALLY worse if they biked instead of drove a stupid $80k SUV. Only ~28% of urbanites are obese in the US, btw. Compare that to ~60% in most rural areas and suburbs. In most walkable urban areas - this number is ~20% or less. It's almost as if the car and the design of our cities makes us fat, and maybe we should change that, instead of saying that the car & roads & parking makes us comfortable.
- Paul-Craft 3y ago
  What you are apparently failing to understand is that the Netherlands is smaller than the 41st largest of 50 states in the US (West Virginia). The longest distance you can travel by any means whatsoever in West Virginia is about 440km. Oh, and it has mountains, too. The Netherlands is pretty much flat, cyclist-friendly terrain. Let's also not forget that the US pretty much has no bike infrastructure. You can say "well, that's your fault," but it's not the fault of the SUV drivers; it's the fault of city planners who plan for anticipated demand by cyclists, rather than leading with infrastructure to encourage cycling. This predictably leads to a lack of people wanting to cycle, for fairly rational reasons: roads built for and dominated by cars are not very safe for people riding bikes. So, the demand doesn't materialize because the infrastructure isn't here, which inhibits demand. Oh, and yeah, the auto manufacturers had a bit to do with it as well. [0] In any case, your ire is aimed in the wrong direction, and the "fat, out of shape American" stereotype has very little to do with it. --- [0]: https://www.businessinsider.com/cycling-boom-us-streets-infrastructure-bike-lanes-history-united-states-2020-12?international=true&r=US&IR=T https://www.businessinsider.com/cycling-boom-us-streets-infr...
  - onlyrealcuzzo 3y ago
    What you're failing to understand is I explicitly said this can work in urban areas. Netherlands doesn't have a huge biking culture in the middle of nowhere, Netherlands.
    - Paul-Craft 3y ago
      Please re-read my entire comment, as it is clear you skipped everything past the first sentence.
2OEH8eoCRo0 3y ago
I'm in NH and see many commuting to Boston in the morning. They should all take bicycles ~40 miles to work and ~40 miles home? What about winter?
- Gwypaas 3y ago
  Or simply build adequate infrastructure. Why Canadians Can't Bike in the Winter (but Finnish people can) https://youtu.be/Uhx-26GfCBU https://youtu.be/Uhx-26GfCBU
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- lucidguppy 3y ago
  Many of them can telecommute. Many companies can set up a smaller satellite campus - even if its a few desks in NH. Companies need to see where people are commuting from and set up a small office to capture those people. Who thinks it's a good idea for hundreds of thousands of people to burn fuel to sit in an open office with half the company WFH that particular day? Commuting culture is insanity.
  - 2OEH8eoCRo0 3y ago
    I think this is the answer- why move bodies at all? We've been told for decades now that Silicon Valley is just filled to the brim with innovators but I'm supposed to believe that they cannot figure out remote work?
    - Johnny_Q_Public 3y ago
      [dead]
- kibwen 3y ago
  The Netherlands also has a robust rail network, and I know several people who commute from NH to Boston by rail, so that's probably a bad example. :P

onlyrealcuzzo 3y ago

> I don’t think you’ve ever been the level of our-of-shape that many people are. No, I haven't. And I fail to see how being out-of-shape is a comfort and not a discomfort. I do agree that we can't force morbidly obese people onto bikes. But the narrative amongst healthy people has got to change that their life would be DRAMATICALLY worse if they biked instead of drove a stupid $80k SUV. Only ~28% of urbanites are obese in the US, btw. Compare that to ~60% in most rural areas and suburbs. In most walkable urban areas - this number is ~20% or less. It's almost as if the car and the design of our cities makes us fat, and maybe we should change that, instead of saying that the car & roads & parking makes us comfortable.

Paul-Craft 3y ago
What you are apparently failing to understand is that the Netherlands is smaller than the 41st largest of 50 states in the US (West Virginia). The longest distance you can travel by any means whatsoever in West Virginia is about 440km. Oh, and it has mountains, too. The Netherlands is pretty much flat, cyclist-friendly terrain. Let's also not forget that the US pretty much has no bike infrastructure. You can say "well, that's your fault," but it's not the fault of the SUV drivers; it's the fault of city planners who plan for anticipated demand by cyclists, rather than leading with infrastructure to encourage cycling. This predictably leads to a lack of people wanting to cycle, for fairly rational reasons: roads built for and dominated by cars are not very safe for people riding bikes. So, the demand doesn't materialize because the infrastructure isn't here, which inhibits demand. Oh, and yeah, the auto manufacturers had a bit to do with it as well. [0] In any case, your ire is aimed in the wrong direction, and the "fat, out of shape American" stereotype has very little to do with it. --- [0]: https://www.businessinsider.com/cycling-boom-us-streets-infrastructure-bike-lanes-history-united-states-2020-12?international=true&r=US&IR=T https://www.businessinsider.com/cycling-boom-us-streets-infr...
- onlyrealcuzzo 3y ago
  What you're failing to understand is I explicitly said this can work in urban areas. Netherlands doesn't have a huge biking culture in the middle of nowhere, Netherlands.
  - Paul-Craft 3y ago
    Please re-read my entire comment, as it is clear you skipped everything past the first sentence.

2OEH8eoCRo0 3y ago

I'm in NH and see many commuting to Boston in the morning. They should all take bicycles ~40 miles to work and ~40 miles home? What about winter?

Gwypaas 3y ago
Or simply build adequate infrastructure. Why Canadians Can't Bike in the Winter (but Finnish people can) https://youtu.be/Uhx-26GfCBU https://youtu.be/Uhx-26GfCBU
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
lucidguppy 3y ago
Many of them can telecommute. Many companies can set up a smaller satellite campus - even if its a few desks in NH. Companies need to see where people are commuting from and set up a small office to capture those people. Who thinks it's a good idea for hundreds of thousands of people to burn fuel to sit in an open office with half the company WFH that particular day? Commuting culture is insanity.
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 3y ago
  I think this is the answer- why move bodies at all? We've been told for decades now that Silicon Valley is just filled to the brim with innovators but I'm supposed to believe that they cannot figure out remote work?
  - Johnny_Q_Public 3y ago
    [dead]
kibwen 3y ago
The Netherlands also has a robust rail network, and I know several people who commute from NH to Boston by rail, so that's probably a bad example. :P