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The Canadian government on the one hand is trying to position Canada as an international tech leader, while on the other hand are trying to implement laws that

The Canadian government on the one hand is trying to position Canada as an international tech leader, while on the other hand are trying to implement laws that are fundamentally at odds with tech norms (i.e. trying to force companies to pay for links with Bill C-18). It's nice to have the tech workers. But will the tech employers want to invest in a regulatory basket-case country?

MichaelZuo 3y ago
I'm fairly certain the Canadian government has more strength, more endurance, and more defendable resources, then all major tech companies on Earth combined have at their disposal, if they fully set all their efforts in that direction. But this is idle fantasizing regarding extreme scenarios either way. In reality they likely will commit a small fraction to it and only a small fraction of interested tech companies may loosely coordinate against it. Even in that case I think they have better then 50-50 odds of seeing it through. So the actual situation could be the opposite.
- SonicScrub 3y ago
  > I'm fairly certain the Canadian government has more strength, more endurance, and more defendable resources, then all tech companies on Earth, combined, if they fully set all their efforts in that direction. This seems like a weird point to bring up in this context. The only thing that matters for a tech company to "defeat" Canada over this regulatory bill is whether the population cares enough to make this topic a voting issue. Canada's GDP and mineral resources don't really help it win this kind of "war". I don't really think we expected Zuckerberg to lead the Meta-Battalion across the 49th parallel just to get CBC articles on Facebook sans-tariff.
  - MichaelZuo 3y ago
    > The only thing that matters for a tech company to "defeat" Canada over this regulatory bill is whether the population cares enough to make this topic a voting issue. Canada does not operate on the US system in terms of politics, it's much more like the UK in that regard.
    - busterarm 3y ago
      We may wear different colored suits, but Canada and the US are both plutocracies and honestly Canada is much more severely so. Take just about any industry in Canada and there's between one and five major enterprises that the government is VERY in bed with and fights tooth and nail to keep out competition.
    - red-iron-pine 3y ago
      it is very much falling in line with US politics -- speaking as someone in Canada who used to hear conversations about what a bitch Hilary is while at the YMCA. I got stuck in traffic behind an anti-vax convoy that had "don't tread on me" flags. saw at least one confederate flag. on big Ford or Dodge trucks, too. Alberta even had a real push for a second to ban gay marriage. wouldn't have survived a federal charter challenge, but it's there. Ontario has a mini-Trump (Ford #2) who is actively trying to privatize everything. there may be a parliamentary style gov, but the tone, tenor, and driving factors like the urban-rural divide are much closer to the US.
  - mywittyname 3y ago
    > Canada's GDP and mineral resources don't really help it win this kind of "war". The USA would like access to those resources, and during trade negotiations, some industries need to be sacrificed (impose tariffs) in order to get access to them.
- busterarm 3y ago
  Amazon's yearly revenue is already more than 1/4 of Canada's GDP... I think you're underestimating tech companies and overestimating Canada and severely underestimating the influence of money in politics. US Senators have been found to be bought for as low ten-thousand dollars.
  - 93po 3y ago
    Seriously - if you took the profits from a single tech company ($60 billion for Google in 2022), you'd be able to single-handedly influence every major election in Canada to the point of basically picking the winners. The organizational power of Canada doesn't really matter when the entirety of it can be bought and sold by a single tech company.
    - busterarm 3y ago
      I think everyone is intentionally deluding themselves here. Fair elections basically aren't and have never been a thing. In any society. Ever. The winners have always been picked by a different process than the actual voting. It's like forcing a card in close up magic. It's the false pretense of fairness and our votes mattering that we need as glue to maintain order.
      - 93po 3y ago
        I am only familiar with US elections, and I agree that it's a rigged system but it does still function a little bit in terms of if things were actually really, really bad, the election system would still work to improve things back to the admittedly sort of crappy status quo. The main reason it fails to work aside from the way its systemically rigged is voter apathy, misinformation, and a lack of critical thinking.
version_five 3y ago
> The Canadian government on the one hand is trying to position Canada as an international tech leader No they're not, they're trying to keep the property bubble alive, artificially inflate gdp growth and drive down wages for the oligarchs who want to keep their fiefs. It has nothing to do with tech leadership.
- palijer 3y ago
  Why would the government be incentivized to drive down wages? That seems fundamentally at odds with the concept of income and sales tax, which account for a very large portion of revenue that funds most programs.
  - chowells 3y ago
    In this case, "the government" actually means "rich politicians who own businesses that like paying low wages."
  - AlexandrB 3y ago
    A senator or MP gets paid the same no matter how much taxes the government collects. The real money is in the private sector afterwards.
  - red-iron-pine 3y ago
    because the doners who get people elected want lower salaries to ensure their labour costs stay low.
  - peteradio 3y ago
    The government issues the cash they are only going to be concerned about how it gets used. Any of this "hurrdurr but the tax base" makes no sense.
actionfromafar 3y ago
A global country could have workers in one company and customers in another. I don't think it matters much.

MichaelZuo 3y ago

I'm fairly certain the Canadian government has more strength, more endurance, and more defendable resources, then all major tech companies on Earth combined have at their disposal, if they fully set all their efforts in that direction. But this is idle fantasizing regarding extreme scenarios either way. In reality they likely will commit a small fraction to it and only a small fraction of interested tech companies may loosely coordinate against it. Even in that case I think they have better then 50-50 odds of seeing it through. So the actual situation could be the opposite.

SonicScrub 3y ago
> I'm fairly certain the Canadian government has more strength, more endurance, and more defendable resources, then all tech companies on Earth, combined, if they fully set all their efforts in that direction. This seems like a weird point to bring up in this context. The only thing that matters for a tech company to "defeat" Canada over this regulatory bill is whether the population cares enough to make this topic a voting issue. Canada's GDP and mineral resources don't really help it win this kind of "war". I don't really think we expected Zuckerberg to lead the Meta-Battalion across the 49th parallel just to get CBC articles on Facebook sans-tariff.
- MichaelZuo 3y ago
  > The only thing that matters for a tech company to "defeat" Canada over this regulatory bill is whether the population cares enough to make this topic a voting issue. Canada does not operate on the US system in terms of politics, it's much more like the UK in that regard.
  - busterarm 3y ago
    We may wear different colored suits, but Canada and the US are both plutocracies and honestly Canada is much more severely so. Take just about any industry in Canada and there's between one and five major enterprises that the government is VERY in bed with and fights tooth and nail to keep out competition.
  - red-iron-pine 3y ago
    it is very much falling in line with US politics -- speaking as someone in Canada who used to hear conversations about what a bitch Hilary is while at the YMCA. I got stuck in traffic behind an anti-vax convoy that had "don't tread on me" flags. saw at least one confederate flag. on big Ford or Dodge trucks, too. Alberta even had a real push for a second to ban gay marriage. wouldn't have survived a federal charter challenge, but it's there. Ontario has a mini-Trump (Ford #2) who is actively trying to privatize everything. there may be a parliamentary style gov, but the tone, tenor, and driving factors like the urban-rural divide are much closer to the US.
- mywittyname 3y ago
  > Canada's GDP and mineral resources don't really help it win this kind of "war". The USA would like access to those resources, and during trade negotiations, some industries need to be sacrificed (impose tariffs) in order to get access to them.
busterarm 3y ago
Amazon's yearly revenue is already more than 1/4 of Canada's GDP... I think you're underestimating tech companies and overestimating Canada and severely underestimating the influence of money in politics. US Senators have been found to be bought for as low ten-thousand dollars.
- 93po 3y ago
  Seriously - if you took the profits from a single tech company ($60 billion for Google in 2022), you'd be able to single-handedly influence every major election in Canada to the point of basically picking the winners. The organizational power of Canada doesn't really matter when the entirety of it can be bought and sold by a single tech company.
  - busterarm 3y ago
    I think everyone is intentionally deluding themselves here. Fair elections basically aren't and have never been a thing. In any society. Ever. The winners have always been picked by a different process than the actual voting. It's like forcing a card in close up magic. It's the false pretense of fairness and our votes mattering that we need as glue to maintain order.
    - 93po 3y ago
      I am only familiar with US elections, and I agree that it's a rigged system but it does still function a little bit in terms of if things were actually really, really bad, the election system would still work to improve things back to the admittedly sort of crappy status quo. The main reason it fails to work aside from the way its systemically rigged is voter apathy, misinformation, and a lack of critical thinking.

version_five 3y ago

> The Canadian government on the one hand is trying to position Canada as an international tech leader No they're not, they're trying to keep the property bubble alive, artificially inflate gdp growth and drive down wages for the oligarchs who want to keep their fiefs. It has nothing to do with tech leadership.

palijer 3y ago
Why would the government be incentivized to drive down wages? That seems fundamentally at odds with the concept of income and sales tax, which account for a very large portion of revenue that funds most programs.
- chowells 3y ago
  In this case, "the government" actually means "rich politicians who own businesses that like paying low wages."
- AlexandrB 3y ago
  A senator or MP gets paid the same no matter how much taxes the government collects. The real money is in the private sector afterwards.
- red-iron-pine 3y ago
  because the doners who get people elected want lower salaries to ensure their labour costs stay low.
- peteradio 3y ago
  The government issues the cash they are only going to be concerned about how it gets used. Any of this "hurrdurr but the tax base" makes no sense.

actionfromafar 3y ago

A global country could have workers in one company and customers in another. I don't think it matters much.