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> In general, the US legal system legal system does not allow forced taking without appropriate compensation. For the poor: Civil Asset Forfeiture "We'll take

> In general, the US legal system legal system does not allow forced taking without appropriate compensation. For the poor: Civil Asset Forfeiture "We'll take what we want, when we want, without trial." For the rich: "Sorry sir, here's a blank check, how much do you want to get paid to not waste water?"

s1artibartfast 3y ago
I don't like civil asset forfeiture either, but it is the exception not the rule. We should work to get rid of asset forfeiture, not work to normalize arbitrary seizure
- jjoonathan 3y ago
  No, you're right, CAF is the exception, the rule is that poor people are too poor to own perpetual exclusive property rights so they have to pay the rich people who do own those rights whatever they can get away with asking.
  - s1artibartfast 3y ago
    And your solution is CAF for all people and all assets? What are you trying to say? Do you think a legal system where the government can simply take anything it wants on a whim will end up better or worse for the poor and powerless?
    - midasuni 3y ago
      A system where land can’t be owned by an individual but instead pay an annual rent based on the unimporoved value of that land, acknowledging they commons is owned evenly by every citizen
      - s1artibartfast 3y ago
        this is a complete non-sequitur, But even in a gerogist land-value tax system doesnt solve the problem of government seizure. Somone can be paying the full rent unimproved value of their land, and the government might decide to void their lease and turn over all of their land, improvements, and work to someone else. The only thing that stops this is if governments respect the contracts they enter into, be they established property rights (in our system), or land lease contracts (in a Georgist system).
      - stcroixx 3y ago
        Said around bong rips in the dorm. This will never happen unless you’re willing to die for it.
anjel 3y ago
Perhaps you're not yet familiar with the Urban "renewal" effects on ethnic families and the destruction of generational wealth transfer on those same families. Emminent Domain>Apropriate compensation doesn't work as you imply. Tl;dr They were kicked out of the gentry by having to accept below market compensation for the homes they rightfully bought and owned which consigned them to renting thereafter. [1]https://abcnews.go.com/US/black-residents-discuss-lasting-injustices-urban-renewal-redlining/story?id=73083737 https://abcnews.go.com/US/black-residents-discuss-lasting-in... [lots more]https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab&q=urban+renewal+eminent+domain+black+families+generational&atb=v383-1&ia=web https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab&q=urban+renewal+eminent+domai...
- ethbr1 3y ago
  It happened, but primarily in the 1950s-1980s. Thankfully, racist use of eminent domain has drastically decreased since. Now you have more garden-variety free market development corruption, where "We buy ugly houses" companies transfer ownership en mass to enable gentrification or capture value from unannounced city infrastructure improvements. Unfortunately, the obvious solution (strengthening property rights) effects its own drag on city improvement by empowering one-asshole-with-the-last-necessary-parcel.

s1artibartfast 3y ago

I don't like civil asset forfeiture either, but it is the exception not the rule. We should work to get rid of asset forfeiture, not work to normalize arbitrary seizure

jjoonathan 3y ago
No, you're right, CAF is the exception, the rule is that poor people are too poor to own perpetual exclusive property rights so they have to pay the rich people who do own those rights whatever they can get away with asking.
- s1artibartfast 3y ago
  And your solution is CAF for all people and all assets? What are you trying to say? Do you think a legal system where the government can simply take anything it wants on a whim will end up better or worse for the poor and powerless?
  - midasuni 3y ago
    A system where land can’t be owned by an individual but instead pay an annual rent based on the unimporoved value of that land, acknowledging they commons is owned evenly by every citizen
    - s1artibartfast 3y ago
      this is a complete non-sequitur, But even in a gerogist land-value tax system doesnt solve the problem of government seizure. Somone can be paying the full rent unimproved value of their land, and the government might decide to void their lease and turn over all of their land, improvements, and work to someone else. The only thing that stops this is if governments respect the contracts they enter into, be they established property rights (in our system), or land lease contracts (in a Georgist system).
    - stcroixx 3y ago
      Said around bong rips in the dorm. This will never happen unless you’re willing to die for it.

anjel 3y ago

Perhaps you're not yet familiar with the Urban "renewal" effects on ethnic families and the destruction of generational wealth transfer on those same families. Emminent Domain>Apropriate compensation doesn't work as you imply. Tl;dr They were kicked out of the gentry by having to accept below market compensation for the homes they rightfully bought and owned which consigned them to renting thereafter. [1]https://abcnews.go.com/US/black-residents-discuss-lasting-injustices-urban-renewal-redlining/story?id=73083737 https://abcnews.go.com/US/black-residents-discuss-lasting-in... [lots more]https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab&q=urban+renewal+eminent+domain+black+families+generational&atb=v383-1&ia=web https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab&q=urban+renewal+eminent+domai...

ethbr1 3y ago
It happened, but primarily in the 1950s-1980s. Thankfully, racist use of eminent domain has drastically decreased since. Now you have more garden-variety free market development corruption, where "We buy ugly houses" companies transfer ownership en mass to enable gentrification or capture value from unannounced city infrastructure improvements. Unfortunately, the obvious solution (strengthening property rights) effects its own drag on city improvement by empowering one-asshole-with-the-last-necessary-parcel.