5 ms·

Vietnamese EV maker worth more than Ford or GM after US listing

28 points by eatonphil 3y ago

allears 3y ago
Paywall.
- jtriangle 3y ago
  and curiously, 12ft ladder doesn't work
throwaway4good 3y ago
https://archive.li/TX86r https://archive.li/TX86r
- dredmorbius 3y ago
  Endless ReCAPTCHA loop: <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37148681 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37148681>
screature2 3y ago
Here's some detail from CNBC (w/out a paywall) https://www.cnbc.com/2023/08/16/ev-maker-vinfast-is-now-worth-more-than-the-likes-of-ford-and-gm.html#:~:text=VinFast%20is%20currently%20worth%20%2485,company%20at%20about%20%2423%20billion https://www.cnbc.com/2023/08/16/ev-maker-vinfast-is-now-wort....
throwaway4good 3y ago
From the article: "VinFast closed at $37.06 in New York on Tuesday, well above the $10 price agreed upon when the carmaker merged with a special purpose acquisition company to secure a stock market listing. Its market capitalisation topped $85bn, at least $27bn higher than either Ford, General Motors or Fiat Chrysler owner Stellantis. VinFast’s billionaire founder Pham Nhat Vuong owns about 99 per cent of its shares, leaving only a small amount available for trading. Only 1.3mn shares of the Spac were able to be traded after earlier redemptions and just $185mn in shares changed hands, according to analysts." Pure market shenanigans.
- JCharante 3y ago
  Such few shares being made available makes it sound like they did the Spac just to brag about being listed in the US markets.
- boeingUH60 3y ago
  > Pham Nhat Vuong owns about 99 per cent of its shares. This company does not deserve to be called publicly-traded..
- gamblor956 3y ago
  Unless I'm mistaken, at $37.06/share, multiplied by 1.3m floating shares, VinFast is only worth $48.2 million.
  - Enginerrrd 3y ago
    Does that account for the fact that those shares combined are worth less than 1% of the company?
    - Tagbert 3y ago
      Are those other 99% shares tasting at this price or are they locked away? If they were included in trading the purchase would likely be significantly lower and so would the valuation
      - Enginerrrd 3y ago
        No they're privately owned and not trading.
        Tagbert 3y ago
        So that stock price doesn’t apply to them.
        Enginerrrd 3y ago
gottorf 3y ago
I've said this before and I'll say this again: computing total market capitalization by simply multiplying the last traded price by the number of shares is nonsensical, because it doesn't take into account the fact that the supply and demand of those shares changes with the price. It is taking a marginal value and imputing the total value. The media and everyone else should stop treating it as a number with any meaning.
- hooverd 3y ago
  Don't tell that to the crypto market.
- Kon-Peki 3y ago
  > computing total market capitalization by simply multiplying the last traded price by the number of shares is nonsensical It's a quick and easy calculation, and you shouldn't worry too much about it. Pretty much anyone serious uses a market capitalization number calculated using the number of floating shares (shares actually available for trading by the general public), including all the (serious) index funds. Everything will be fine :) EDIT - For example S&P would assign this an IWF of 0.01, meaning it isn't even eligible for the S&P Total Market index fund, let alone the S&P 500: https://www.spglobal.com/spdji/en/documents/methodologies/methodology-sp-us-indices.pdf?utm_source=pdf https://www.spglobal.com/spdji/en/documents/methodologies/me... https://www.spglobal.com/spdji/en/documents/index-policies/methodology-sp-float-adjustment.pdf https://www.spglobal.com/spdji/en/documents/index-policies/m...
- jfengel 3y ago
  For a well-traded commodity, it's a reasonable extrapolation. We even get to test it sometimes. When a company is sold, the offer price is usually about the same as the current market price. There's usually a small premium because you tip your hand that you want to buy all of it, but it's a factor of 10%, not 2x or 10x. Shenanigans can flout that. Crypto trading is almost all shenanigans. So is most of the "pink sheets" (penny stocks). When the trading is thin, the metric is easily manipulated.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
tibbydudeza 3y ago
"On 27 July 2021, parent Vingroup announced that Michael Lohscheller, the CEO of Opel, had been appointed CEO of VinFast Global.Five months later, on 27 December 2021, it was announced that Lohscheller had resigned the position." I wonder why he left - he probably had some golden handcuffs :).
drumhead 3y ago
Thats why everyone wants to list their companies in the US markets. Crazy valuations. Its becoming a problem for the London stock exchange, no one wants to list there anymore, even companies with activies predominantly based in the UK are listing in New York. What was trickle is turning into a torrent.

28 points by eatonphil 3y ago

allears 3y ago

Paywall.

jtriangle 3y ago
and curiously, 12ft ladder doesn't work

throwaway4good 3y ago

https://archive.li/TX86r https://archive.li/TX86r

dredmorbius 3y ago
Endless ReCAPTCHA loop: <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37148681 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37148681>

screature2 3y ago

Here's some detail from CNBC (w/out a paywall) https://www.cnbc.com/2023/08/16/ev-maker-vinfast-is-now-worth-more-than-the-likes-of-ford-and-gm.html#:~:text=VinFast%20is%20currently%20worth%20%2485,company%20at%20about%20%2423%20billion https://www.cnbc.com/2023/08/16/ev-maker-vinfast-is-now-wort....

throwaway4good 3y ago

From the article: "VinFast closed at $37.06 in New York on Tuesday, well above the $10 price agreed upon when the carmaker merged with a special purpose acquisition company to secure a stock market listing. Its market capitalisation topped $85bn, at least $27bn higher than either Ford, General Motors or Fiat Chrysler owner Stellantis. VinFast’s billionaire founder Pham Nhat Vuong owns about 99 per cent of its shares, leaving only a small amount available for trading. Only 1.3mn shares of the Spac were able to be traded after earlier redemptions and just $185mn in shares changed hands, according to analysts." Pure market shenanigans.

JCharante 3y ago
Such few shares being made available makes it sound like they did the Spac just to brag about being listed in the US markets.
boeingUH60 3y ago
> Pham Nhat Vuong owns about 99 per cent of its shares. This company does not deserve to be called publicly-traded..
gamblor956 3y ago
Unless I'm mistaken, at $37.06/share, multiplied by 1.3m floating shares, VinFast is only worth $48.2 million.
- Enginerrrd 3y ago
  Does that account for the fact that those shares combined are worth less than 1% of the company?
  - Tagbert 3y ago
    Are those other 99% shares tasting at this price or are they locked away? If they were included in trading the purchase would likely be significantly lower and so would the valuation
    - Enginerrrd 3y ago
      No they're privately owned and not trading.
      - Tagbert 3y ago
        So that stock price doesn’t apply to them.
        Enginerrrd 3y ago

gottorf 3y ago

I've said this before and I'll say this again: computing total market capitalization by simply multiplying the last traded price by the number of shares is nonsensical, because it doesn't take into account the fact that the supply and demand of those shares changes with the price. It is taking a marginal value and imputing the total value. The media and everyone else should stop treating it as a number with any meaning.

hooverd 3y ago
Don't tell that to the crypto market.
Kon-Peki 3y ago
> computing total market capitalization by simply multiplying the last traded price by the number of shares is nonsensical It's a quick and easy calculation, and you shouldn't worry too much about it. Pretty much anyone serious uses a market capitalization number calculated using the number of floating shares (shares actually available for trading by the general public), including all the (serious) index funds. Everything will be fine :) EDIT - For example S&P would assign this an IWF of 0.01, meaning it isn't even eligible for the S&P Total Market index fund, let alone the S&P 500: https://www.spglobal.com/spdji/en/documents/methodologies/methodology-sp-us-indices.pdf?utm_source=pdf https://www.spglobal.com/spdji/en/documents/methodologies/me... https://www.spglobal.com/spdji/en/documents/index-policies/methodology-sp-float-adjustment.pdf https://www.spglobal.com/spdji/en/documents/index-policies/m...
jfengel 3y ago
For a well-traded commodity, it's a reasonable extrapolation. We even get to test it sometimes. When a company is sold, the offer price is usually about the same as the current market price. There's usually a small premium because you tip your hand that you want to buy all of it, but it's a factor of 10%, not 2x or 10x. Shenanigans can flout that. Crypto trading is almost all shenanigans. So is most of the "pink sheets" (penny stocks). When the trading is thin, the metric is easily manipulated.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

tibbydudeza 3y ago

"On 27 July 2021, parent Vingroup announced that Michael Lohscheller, the CEO of Opel, had been appointed CEO of VinFast Global.Five months later, on 27 December 2021, it was announced that Lohscheller had resigned the position." I wonder why he left - he probably had some golden handcuffs :).

drumhead 3y ago

Thats why everyone wants to list their companies in the US markets. Crazy valuations. Its becoming a problem for the London stock exchange, no one wants to list there anymore, even companies with activies predominantly based in the UK are listing in New York. What was trickle is turning into a torrent.