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I am not looking forward to a future filled with this type of surveillance.

by tmaly 3y ago

contravariant 3y ago
I'm not too worried about this kind of surveillance. What we're seeing here is surveillance of a public area, used for a clear goal, which is proportional (because texting while driving is insane) and is reviewed by humans, and has clear avenues for escalation when it makes a mistake. The scary parts are the parts that such a system is capable of, but which are not made public. For one the article doesn't mention whether the data is used for anything else or if it is ever deleted. It's also not clear if there are plans to use it for less serious offences, or if the human review is going to be removed at some point.
- rootusrootus 3y ago
  > texting while driving is insane I'm inclined to agree, but I would also love to see more detailed analysis. It is easy for everyone to jump on this particular bandwagon (I have found very few people willing to say that texting while driving is no big deal), but at the same time I see a lot of texting while driving happening every day. And while we do know it contributes to accidents, driving remains a relatively safe activity statistically given how dangerous it seems. It's a little bit similar to the 'think of the children' argument, and it makes me uncomfortable when we use such justifications for massively increasing surveillance in a way that seems disproportionate to the problem we are trying to solve.
  - krisoft 3y ago
    > we use such justifications for massively increasing surveillance Is it massively increasing surveillance? UK is full of speed cameras[1] and automatic number plate recognition cameras[2]. "Vehicle movements on UK roads are recorded by a network of 11,000 cameras that read around 60 million number plates daily." 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_speed_limit_enforcement_in_the_United_Kingdom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_speed_limit_enforcement_i... 2: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_number-plate_recognition_in_the_United_Kingdom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_number-plate_recogni...
    - rootusrootus 3y ago
      That is a good point, though personally I do think there is a pretty significant escalation between reading number plates on the outside of the car, and pointing a camera inside the car to judge what is happening inside. I also think speed cameras are problematic, because they seem to be more effective at revenue generation than improving safety. We know how to design roads to make them safer implicitly, including ways to reduce the speed, without just pointing a camera at the cars and mailing out tickets a couple weeks later.
  - lukasLansky 3y ago
    https://www.statista.com/chart/17194/pedestrian-fatalities-in-the-us-by-year/ https://www.statista.com/chart/17194/pedestrian-fatalities-i...
matthewfelgate 3y ago
Why?

I am not looking forward to a future filled with this type of surveillance.

by tmaly 3y ago

I am not looking forward to a future filled with this type of surveillance.

I'm not too worried about this kind of surveillance. What we're seeing here is surveillance of a public area, used for a clear goal, which is proportional (because texting while driving is insane) and is reviewed by humans, and has clear avenues for escalation when it makes a mistake. The scary parts are the parts that such a system is capable of, but which are not made public. For one the article doesn't mention whether the data is used for anything else or if it is ever deleted. It's also not clear if there are plans to use it for less serious offences, or if the human review is going to be removed at some point.

rootusrootus 3y ago
> texting while driving is insane I'm inclined to agree, but I would also love to see more detailed analysis. It is easy for everyone to jump on this particular bandwagon (I have found very few people willing to say that texting while driving is no big deal), but at the same time I see a lot of texting while driving happening every day. And while we do know it contributes to accidents, driving remains a relatively safe activity statistically given how dangerous it seems. It's a little bit similar to the 'think of the children' argument, and it makes me uncomfortable when we use such justifications for massively increasing surveillance in a way that seems disproportionate to the problem we are trying to solve.
- krisoft 3y ago
  > we use such justifications for massively increasing surveillance Is it massively increasing surveillance? UK is full of speed cameras[1] and automatic number plate recognition cameras[2]. "Vehicle movements on UK roads are recorded by a network of 11,000 cameras that read around 60 million number plates daily." 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_speed_limit_enforcement_in_the_United_Kingdom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_speed_limit_enforcement_i... 2: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_number-plate_recognition_in_the_United_Kingdom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_number-plate_recogni...
  - rootusrootus 3y ago
    That is a good point, though personally I do think there is a pretty significant escalation between reading number plates on the outside of the car, and pointing a camera inside the car to judge what is happening inside. I also think speed cameras are problematic, because they seem to be more effective at revenue generation than improving safety. We know how to design roads to make them safer implicitly, including ways to reduce the speed, without just pointing a camera at the cars and mailing out tickets a couple weeks later.
- lukasLansky 3y ago
  https://www.statista.com/chart/17194/pedestrian-fatalities-in-the-us-by-year/ https://www.statista.com/chart/17194/pedestrian-fatalities-i...

matthewfelgate 3y ago

Why?