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> …was seized by force by the US and the natives never had any say. Just like the rest of the United States.
by balls187 3y ago
> …was seized by force by the US and the natives never had any say.
Just like the rest of the United States.
- ceejayoz 3y agoNot really; this was more coup-y than usual. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overthrow_of_the_Hawaiian_Kingdom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overthrow_of_the_Hawaiian_King...
- tssva 3y agoAnd the Hawaiian Kingdom existed for less than 100 years. It was formed by force when the other islands in the chain were conquered by the big island.
- ceejayoz 3y agoYou can see how that's not quite the same thing, right?
- voisin 3y agoI don’t?
- ceejayoz 3y agoLow-grade inter-tribal conflict over leadership, versus an external superpower annexing and then sending your kids into boarding schools thousands of miles away(https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/us-confronts-cultural-genocide-native-american-boarding-school-probe-2022-05-18/ https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/us-confronts-cultur...), banning your entire language for four generations (https://www.hawaiipublicschools.org/TeachingAndLearning/StudentLearning/HawaiianEducation/Pages/History-of-the-Hawaiian-Education-program.aspx https://www.hawaiipublicschools.org/TeachingAndLearning/Stud...), and wiping out 84% of your population (https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2015/04/06/native-hawaiian-population/ https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2015/04/06/native-ha...) are not remotely in the same realm.
- bandyaboot 3y agoI suppose coup-y is a slight improvement over genocide-y. Though I suspect that wouldn't have been much consolation to the native Hawaiians.
- ceejayoz 3y agoNative Hawaiians tend to consider what happened post-coup as a form of genocide. https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/us-confronts-cultural-genocide-native-american-boarding-school-probe-2022-05-18/ https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/us-confronts-cultur...
- balls187 3y agoSure, but the point was that the US is all about taking by force. We even have a very nice term for it: "Manifest Destiny"
- RegularOpossum 3y agoThe argument generally is the case in Hawaii was particularly egregious, as Hawaii had an organized government with formal diplomatic relations with many countries, including embassies in Great Britain and France. Hawaii, along with the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo, are examples of areas of significant escalation of the U.S. expansionist history through the overthrowing of recognized governments. It's all bad, but these are just a different type of bad.
- voisin 3y agoDoes diplomatic relations make the difference? Seems like splitting hairs. Read about what happened to the native populations which had established hierarchies and relations with each other throughout the continent and it looks no different to my eyes than what happened to the Hawaiians.
- RegularOpossum 3y agoYes, having formal diplomatic relations in the late 19th century with major Western powers to other nations is a significant difference. This is very different than say, France having tribal relations in an influence fight with British Colonial expansionism 150 years prior to the overthrowing of the Hawaiian Kingdom. Again, it's all bad, this is just a different kind of bad.