4 ms·

The WASF3 Protein shows up in other studies as well. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8703627/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8703627

The WASF3 Protein shows up in other studies as well. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8703627/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8703627/ I'm esp. interested in any interaction with food. Because I get depression 4 days after I ate a food. I don't have any other symptoms than low energy and a sense of impending doom. Symptoms stay for 3 days then go away. Started collecting the info in my github. I'm very interested if anyone has more ideas.

icoder 3y ago
Did you purposely leave out what type of food or was that a typo? Because that would be an (the) interesting part of your experience!
- aszantu 3y ago
  I'm on carnivore diet. I seem to tolerate almost only meat, plants only in small quantities. I did okay with 1 grapefruit/day for a while but that's come to an end. I seem to be okay with fermented thyme. Pepper is no good, swollen eyes, but chilly seems to be okay. Those are never consumed in big quantities, I could test with chilly capsules though and maybe I will. Diet consists of Lamb, once a day, then some yoghurt or kefir in the evening. Some koffee and milk as well. Haven't collected everything yet, maybe you find something that helps - or can add some. Trying to get diagnosis for leaky gut, it's a drag to get an appointment. https://github.com/cutestuff/FoodDepressionConundrum https://github.com/cutestuff/FoodDepressionConundrum
coldtea 3y ago
That could be some micro-allergy to that food (or one of its ingredients)?
treprinum 3y ago
Did you try antihistamines? This could be some form of acquired allergy or auto-immune reaction.
- rocqua 3y ago
  Is there a plausible mechanism for histamine to affect gut-health? I thought histamine was just an airway thing.
  - mnw21cam 3y ago
    Histamine is a general inflammation-inducing chemical. That pain and rash you get when you touch a stinging nettle - that's caused by the stinging nettle literally injecting histamine into your skin.
  - r2_pilot 3y ago
    Histamines affect a broad spectrum of body systems. One time I was really stressed about work, went to bed and started itching unbearably and had welts. Apparently I had broken out into hives, which I didn't recognize at first, then I took an antihistamine and within half an hour everything was back to normal.
  - InSteady 3y ago
    Mast Cell Activation Syndrome would be the main one. Mast cells are an integral part of the intestinal epithelial barrier. When they become over-sensitive, even small amounts of dietary histamine (present in a large number of foods) can trigger GI and systemic symptoms. H2 blockers have shown some efficacy, as well as DAO supplements (which break down dietary histamine).
- codeTired 3y ago
  I believe it has been found that the new h1 inhibitors like Allegra can inhibit TNF-a, so it could technically work on several inflammatory diseases. This is what some biologics do. I have spoke to people who had improvement after doing an antihistamine protocol. In the long covid/cfs space.
- aszantu 3y ago
  I'm constantly eating beef and occasionally cheese with no issue, so I haven't been thinking about histamine. I don't seem to react to cheese, other fermented milk or fermented meat or canned fish.
manmal 3y ago
Some ideas: - Gastroparesis - Thiol intolerance (impaired sulfur metabolism) - could try molybdenum and maybe Boron supplementation (ask doctor if ok) - High gut permeability („leaky gut“) -> undigested proteins enter blood stream -> autoimmunity (eg via viral mimicry; all kinds of viruses can do that, but COVID and EBV come to mind). Water fasting could help, maybe digestive enzymes - Mechnical interaction, eg dysbiosis -> bloating -> cervical spine misalignment -> more bloating due to vagal nerve pinching (try massaging back of the neck vigorously to see if depression disappears for a while) - Auto-brewery syndrome All of those can be downstream issues of systemic issues, like hypothyroidism (which has been shown to be caused by microbiome metabolites; I wouldn’t just down the next best yogurt though, but look at studies around Bifidobacterium Longum, which looks promising; probably others too).
- treprinum 3y ago
  Wouldn't large quantities of glutamine daily (30g+) be the best way to reduce gut permeability?
  - manmal 3y ago
    I think it’s worth a shot, yeah.
  - InSteady 3y ago
    This has been found to be effective, although it has a huge list of potential side effects [0]. Anecdotally, among people with GI problems, especially IBS, it can often cause reactions such as nausea, anxiety, and bloating (some practitioners estimate this to occur in about 30% of patients). For this reason it is often recommended to start in small doses (3-5g), sometimes split throughout the day, and gradually increase up to the 30g target over the course of several weeks. Given the list of side effects, including less common but potentially serious ones, it is very much worth running this by your healthcare professional prior to use. Although there is less research into it than l-glutamine, there is rapidly growing interest into the effects of creatine supplementation on dysfunctions of the epithelial barrier (which would include intestinal permeability aka "leaky gut") [1]. The upshot is that it is an well studied supplement that is very well tolerated by almost everyone. Zinc carnosine is another one that can be helpful, if tolerated. However it is believed that enteric-coated formulations are required to be effective (which may be hard to find) due to very high absorption rates and susceptibility to stomach acid prior to reaching the intestines [2]. [0] https://www.mayoclinic.org/drugs-supplements/glutamine-oral-route/side-effects/drg-20064099?p=1 https://www.mayoclinic.org/drugs-supplements/glutamine-oral-... [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8145094/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8145094/ [2] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2210740122000912 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S221074012...
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
njroute22 3y ago
I am also carnivore with NO energy or fatigue issues. HOWEVER, I am constantly experimenting with foods, isolation, etc. - and I discovered that PLANT-BASED milks or creamers for my coffee give me TERRIBLE CFS. - Almond Milk - Cashew Milk Specifically "big brand" names you find at chain stores. They must be chemically treating these foods with something. I don't trust them. Back to cow's milk for me.
- callalex 3y ago
  That’s not what CFS is.
  - njroute22 3y ago
    That is what I was referring to - a period of lethargic, listless, slow physical being. The "zip" is not there. A few days after terminating consumption of plant-based creamer - back to normal.
hinkley 3y ago
> This study shows that endoplamic reticulum (ER) stress–induced WASF3 protein localizes to mitochondria and disrupts respiratory supercomplex assembly, leading to decreased oxygen consumption and exercise endurance. Alleviating ER stress decreases WASF3 and restores mitochondrial function, indicating that WASF3 can impair skeletal muscle bioenergetics and may be targetable for treating fatigue symptoms. So it's a stress response, not necessarily causal. It's long been suspected that some sort of perennial stress state was involved in this problem (anything from adrenal fatigue to illness genes never turning off). So does this tell us more or is this just another biomarker? Though I say 'just', finding a biomarker for CFS would still be something people could be tested for, which is way better than where we are now.

icoder 3y ago

Did you purposely leave out what type of food or was that a typo? Because that would be an (the) interesting part of your experience!

aszantu 3y ago
I'm on carnivore diet. I seem to tolerate almost only meat, plants only in small quantities. I did okay with 1 grapefruit/day for a while but that's come to an end. I seem to be okay with fermented thyme. Pepper is no good, swollen eyes, but chilly seems to be okay. Those are never consumed in big quantities, I could test with chilly capsules though and maybe I will. Diet consists of Lamb, once a day, then some yoghurt or kefir in the evening. Some koffee and milk as well. Haven't collected everything yet, maybe you find something that helps - or can add some. Trying to get diagnosis for leaky gut, it's a drag to get an appointment. https://github.com/cutestuff/FoodDepressionConundrum https://github.com/cutestuff/FoodDepressionConundrum

coldtea 3y ago

That could be some micro-allergy to that food (or one of its ingredients)?

treprinum 3y ago

Did you try antihistamines? This could be some form of acquired allergy or auto-immune reaction.

rocqua 3y ago
Is there a plausible mechanism for histamine to affect gut-health? I thought histamine was just an airway thing.
- mnw21cam 3y ago
  Histamine is a general inflammation-inducing chemical. That pain and rash you get when you touch a stinging nettle - that's caused by the stinging nettle literally injecting histamine into your skin.
- r2_pilot 3y ago
  Histamines affect a broad spectrum of body systems. One time I was really stressed about work, went to bed and started itching unbearably and had welts. Apparently I had broken out into hives, which I didn't recognize at first, then I took an antihistamine and within half an hour everything was back to normal.
- InSteady 3y ago
  Mast Cell Activation Syndrome would be the main one. Mast cells are an integral part of the intestinal epithelial barrier. When they become over-sensitive, even small amounts of dietary histamine (present in a large number of foods) can trigger GI and systemic symptoms. H2 blockers have shown some efficacy, as well as DAO supplements (which break down dietary histamine).
codeTired 3y ago
I believe it has been found that the new h1 inhibitors like Allegra can inhibit TNF-a, so it could technically work on several inflammatory diseases. This is what some biologics do. I have spoke to people who had improvement after doing an antihistamine protocol. In the long covid/cfs space.
aszantu 3y ago
I'm constantly eating beef and occasionally cheese with no issue, so I haven't been thinking about histamine. I don't seem to react to cheese, other fermented milk or fermented meat or canned fish.

manmal 3y ago

Some ideas: - Gastroparesis - Thiol intolerance (impaired sulfur metabolism) - could try molybdenum and maybe Boron supplementation (ask doctor if ok) - High gut permeability („leaky gut“) -> undigested proteins enter blood stream -> autoimmunity (eg via viral mimicry; all kinds of viruses can do that, but COVID and EBV come to mind). Water fasting could help, maybe digestive enzymes - Mechnical interaction, eg dysbiosis -> bloating -> cervical spine misalignment -> more bloating due to vagal nerve pinching (try massaging back of the neck vigorously to see if depression disappears for a while) - Auto-brewery syndrome All of those can be downstream issues of systemic issues, like hypothyroidism (which has been shown to be caused by microbiome metabolites; I wouldn’t just down the next best yogurt though, but look at studies around Bifidobacterium Longum, which looks promising; probably others too).

treprinum 3y ago
Wouldn't large quantities of glutamine daily (30g+) be the best way to reduce gut permeability?
- manmal 3y ago
  I think it’s worth a shot, yeah.
- InSteady 3y ago
  This has been found to be effective, although it has a huge list of potential side effects [0]. Anecdotally, among people with GI problems, especially IBS, it can often cause reactions such as nausea, anxiety, and bloating (some practitioners estimate this to occur in about 30% of patients). For this reason it is often recommended to start in small doses (3-5g), sometimes split throughout the day, and gradually increase up to the 30g target over the course of several weeks. Given the list of side effects, including less common but potentially serious ones, it is very much worth running this by your healthcare professional prior to use. Although there is less research into it than l-glutamine, there is rapidly growing interest into the effects of creatine supplementation on dysfunctions of the epithelial barrier (which would include intestinal permeability aka "leaky gut") [1]. The upshot is that it is an well studied supplement that is very well tolerated by almost everyone. Zinc carnosine is another one that can be helpful, if tolerated. However it is believed that enteric-coated formulations are required to be effective (which may be hard to find) due to very high absorption rates and susceptibility to stomach acid prior to reaching the intestines [2]. [0] https://www.mayoclinic.org/drugs-supplements/glutamine-oral-route/side-effects/drg-20064099?p=1 https://www.mayoclinic.org/drugs-supplements/glutamine-oral-... [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8145094/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8145094/ [2] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2210740122000912 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S221074012...

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

njroute22 3y ago

I am also carnivore with NO energy or fatigue issues. HOWEVER, I am constantly experimenting with foods, isolation, etc. - and I discovered that PLANT-BASED milks or creamers for my coffee give me TERRIBLE CFS. - Almond Milk - Cashew Milk Specifically "big brand" names you find at chain stores. They must be chemically treating these foods with something. I don't trust them. Back to cow's milk for me.

callalex 3y ago
That’s not what CFS is.
- njroute22 3y ago
  That is what I was referring to - a period of lethargic, listless, slow physical being. The "zip" is not there. A few days after terminating consumption of plant-based creamer - back to normal.

hinkley 3y ago

> This study shows that endoplamic reticulum (ER) stress–induced WASF3 protein localizes to mitochondria and disrupts respiratory supercomplex assembly, leading to decreased oxygen consumption and exercise endurance. Alleviating ER stress decreases WASF3 and restores mitochondrial function, indicating that WASF3 can impair skeletal muscle bioenergetics and may be targetable for treating fatigue symptoms. So it's a stress response, not necessarily causal. It's long been suspected that some sort of perennial stress state was involved in this problem (anything from adrenal fatigue to illness genes never turning off). So does this tell us more or is this just another biomarker? Though I say 'just', finding a biomarker for CFS would still be something people could be tested for, which is way better than where we are now.