4 ms·

Why is legal action and eco terrorism the only two options? Better to work on solutions, like fusion power and battery technology for electric transport.

by Gud 3y ago

Loic 3y ago
I will not comment for eco-terrorism, but if you want to get the companies to change what they are doing you only have one solution: the power of the law. This is because taking care of your externalities as a company means instant added costs. You save money only on the long run as you make your production processes more efficient, you reduce waste, improve your supply chain, etc. So, if you want a change now, you have only the law to force the company because on the short term it will be bad for the profits. Changing the laws take time, finding a point where you hook into and take a legal action is going faster and can have rippling effects. You can see such action in Montana. And of course in parallel you need to develop the technologies, reduce consumption, reuse, etc.
moffkalast 3y ago
> fusion power and battery technology for electric transport You mean praying for a miracle to save us instead of doing what's needed? Both of those can just as easily turn out to be unfeasible.
- Gud 3y ago
  No, I mean developing the technology required to sustain a population nearing 10 billion people. What makes you think the good people working at Commonwealth Fusions Systems are “praying for a miracle”? They are putting in the effort, not praying.
  - eesmith 3y ago
    The prayer is that such systems will be working soon enough, and deployed soon enough, that it will be an effective way to greatly reduce greenhouse gas emissions. According to Wikipedia, Commonwealth Fusions Systems doesn't expect a working pilot plant for at least another 10 years. Commercial deployment will take even longer. But we need such reductions NOW. And that's assuming it works, and not an overly optimistic expectation. I've been reading about plans for fusion power ever since I was a teenager in the 1980s. Also, the Wikipedia entry for CFS comments "as a result of sanctions against Russia, CFS faced significant supply chain problems". CFS cannot simply use effort to make all future supply chain problems disappear. They can only pray there isn't a COVID25 that makes 2020 movement restrictions seem a walk in the park.
    - Gud 3y ago
      Any solution to climate change will take decades to implement. There is no turning this around quickly. CFS are working on their first prototype reactor to be finished within a few years, but their factory to begin mass producing will take another decade. It is of course possible CFS will fail. However they have been on track for a while now. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KkpqA8yG9T4&pp=ygUhZGVubmlzIHdoeXRlIGZ1c2lvbiAgYnJlYWt0aHJvdWdo https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KkpqA8yG9T4&pp=ygUhZGVubmlzIHd...
      - moffkalast 3y ago
        We don't have decades.
        Gud 3y ago
        The decades will pass whether we will it or not. I doubt we will all be dead in some cataclysmic event until then. Put in the work and hope for the best. What else is there?
        eesmith 3y ago
        > I doubt we will all be dead in some cataclysmic event until then. Please don't derail the topic. Your first comment on this thread was a response to DoingIsLearning's prediction: "Start suing start and start lobbying. It is pretty much the only thing left bar from going full eco terrorist (which I believe is entirely likely in our current timeline)." That isn't a claim or concern that there will be cataclysmic event. Think more like 'Weather Underground'-style bombings on local gas stations. BTW, the way you wrote it makes it appears that you only care about yourself, and don't care if a cataclysmic event affects your children or any others who come after you. You might want to think of a better way to phrase your argument.
      - eesmith 3y ago
        > Any solution to climate change will take decades to implement. There is no turning this around quickly. Certainly. But your assertion was it's "Better to work on solutions, like fusion power and battery technology for electric transport" than follow the alternatives of "legal action and eco terrorism". Are you really arguing we should do nothing until technology solves things for us? If so, that sounds like the "Parable of the drowning man" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_drowning_man https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_drowning_man - your faith in unproven future technology seems indistinguishable from prayers.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]

Why is legal action and eco terrorism the only two options? Better to work on solutions, like fusion power and battery technology for electric transport.

by Gud 3y ago

Why is legal action and eco terrorism the only two options? Better to work on solutions, like fusion power and battery technology for electric transport.

Loic 3y ago

I will not comment for eco-terrorism, but if you want to get the companies to change what they are doing you only have one solution: the power of the law. This is because taking care of your externalities as a company means instant added costs. You save money only on the long run as you make your production processes more efficient, you reduce waste, improve your supply chain, etc. So, if you want a change now, you have only the law to force the company because on the short term it will be bad for the profits. Changing the laws take time, finding a point where you hook into and take a legal action is going faster and can have rippling effects. You can see such action in Montana. And of course in parallel you need to develop the technologies, reduce consumption, reuse, etc.

moffkalast 3y ago

> fusion power and battery technology for electric transport You mean praying for a miracle to save us instead of doing what's needed? Both of those can just as easily turn out to be unfeasible.

Gud 3y ago
No, I mean developing the technology required to sustain a population nearing 10 billion people. What makes you think the good people working at Commonwealth Fusions Systems are “praying for a miracle”? They are putting in the effort, not praying.
- eesmith 3y ago
  The prayer is that such systems will be working soon enough, and deployed soon enough, that it will be an effective way to greatly reduce greenhouse gas emissions. According to Wikipedia, Commonwealth Fusions Systems doesn't expect a working pilot plant for at least another 10 years. Commercial deployment will take even longer. But we need such reductions NOW. And that's assuming it works, and not an overly optimistic expectation. I've been reading about plans for fusion power ever since I was a teenager in the 1980s. Also, the Wikipedia entry for CFS comments "as a result of sanctions against Russia, CFS faced significant supply chain problems". CFS cannot simply use effort to make all future supply chain problems disappear. They can only pray there isn't a COVID25 that makes 2020 movement restrictions seem a walk in the park.
  - Gud 3y ago
    Any solution to climate change will take decades to implement. There is no turning this around quickly. CFS are working on their first prototype reactor to be finished within a few years, but their factory to begin mass producing will take another decade. It is of course possible CFS will fail. However they have been on track for a while now. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KkpqA8yG9T4&pp=ygUhZGVubmlzIHdoeXRlIGZ1c2lvbiAgYnJlYWt0aHJvdWdo https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KkpqA8yG9T4&pp=ygUhZGVubmlzIHd...
    - moffkalast 3y ago
      We don't have decades.
      - Gud 3y ago
        The decades will pass whether we will it or not. I doubt we will all be dead in some cataclysmic event until then. Put in the work and hope for the best. What else is there?
        eesmith 3y ago
        > I doubt we will all be dead in some cataclysmic event until then. Please don't derail the topic. Your first comment on this thread was a response to DoingIsLearning's prediction: "Start suing start and start lobbying. It is pretty much the only thing left bar from going full eco terrorist (which I believe is entirely likely in our current timeline)." That isn't a claim or concern that there will be cataclysmic event. Think more like 'Weather Underground'-style bombings on local gas stations. BTW, the way you wrote it makes it appears that you only care about yourself, and don't care if a cataclysmic event affects your children or any others who come after you. You might want to think of a better way to phrase your argument.
    - eesmith 3y ago
      > Any solution to climate change will take decades to implement. There is no turning this around quickly. Certainly. But your assertion was it's "Better to work on solutions, like fusion power and battery technology for electric transport" than follow the alternatives of "legal action and eco terrorism". Are you really arguing we should do nothing until technology solves things for us? If so, that sounds like the "Parable of the drowning man" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_drowning_man https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_drowning_man - your faith in unproven future technology seems indistinguishable from prayers.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]