6 ms·

Still won't use gcp. VPS like digital ocean and linode are the way to go

dna_polymerase 3y ago
If cloud compute is an “Xbox vs. PlayStation” or “iPhone vs. Samsung” type of situation, you are obviously not the type of customer that GCP even tries to attract. Cloud is for big computational needs that can't be covered by Linde or DO.
- finikytou 3y ago
  yeah and gcp is definitely not for that either. they had a full region down for weeks in paris while pretending they have availability zones (but one fire in one datacenter put everything down). at this stage the only trustable big computational cloud is AWS.
  - gbrindisi 3y ago
    wasn’t that OVH?
    - toast0 3y ago
      I think they're referring to this incident?[1] although the timeline in the preliminary report seems to indicate that service disruption in europe-west9 but outside the directly affected zone had ended the day after the incident began. In the directly affected zone, there was water and smoke damage, and it seems like 58% of europe-west9-a was decomissioned as a result. Losing roughly half of the capacity in one of three availability zones for a location would probably make instance availability a lot tighter, and might have impacted the poster in ways that aren't reflected in the report? I work for a gcp customer, but we don't have anything deployed to europe-west9, so I don't have direct exposure. As I recall, we did see some difference in geodns routing on that day, but it was unclear if it was related or not. [1] https://status.cloud.google.com/incidents/dS9ps52MUnxQfyDGPfkY https://status.cloud.google.com/incidents/dS9ps52MUnxQfyDGPf...
      - finikytou 3y ago
        definitly not one day but weeks as I posted links just above. and again they lied about what is a region. don't know why it didnt reach WW news.
        toast0 3y ago
        The register link says europe-west9-a was still down after weeks, and that -c had a five hour outage the weekend before publishing. The other article was published near the time of the incident and doesn't say anything about the weeks after. europe-west9-a was clearly messed up, and for a long time; which I think is fairly reasonable if you have to toss out at least 58% of the hardware because of water and smoke damage. c'est la vie. That -b and -c were unavailable during the incident is not how availability zones are supposed to work, and it's bad; but you seem to be claiming that -b and -c were down for weeks afterward and I don't see that reflected in the links you shared. If you demand a 3 availability zone system, and one availability zone had a disaster; the right thing to do is to move to another region which has three working azs (and hope that one is properly setup; or request an audit if you've got leverage). Cloudyness is supposed to make it easier to move infrastructure. But if likeminded customers are all moving infrastructure, there's going to be a capacity crunch. OTOH, GCP has several regions in europe-west, and there's a lot of interconnections in Europe in general, so unless you had a requirement to domicile data in France, lots of options.
        finikytou 3y ago
        https://status.cloud.google.com/incidents/dS9ps52MUnxQfyDGPfkY https://status.cloud.google.com/incidents/dS9ps52MUnxQfyDGPf... Multiple Google Cloud services in the europe-west9 region are impacted. 'Water intrusion in a data center in europe-west9 caused a multi-cluster failure that led to a shutdown of multiple zones. We expect some unavailability in the europe-west9 region. There is no current ETA for full recovery of operations in the europe-west9 region at this time. We expected to see an extended outage for some services. Customers are advised to failover to other regions if they are impacted.' can you please explain to me how water intrusion in a data center cause a region failure? there is only one reason. they lied. most likely overhyping the region resiliency. how after seing that can you trust them to host critical apps is beyond belief. and if you look the resolution link I shared they kept hiding reality behind fuzzy language. 'After Regional Spanner, IAM and GCE/PD came back online for the region, almost all of the services in the region fully recovered soon after that. The following services either took longer to recover or had additional impact during the outage. Google Cloud Storage, Google BigQuery, Cloud Bigtable, Cloud SQL, Cloud Pub/Sub, Google Cloud Dataflow Please log a case with our Support team if you would like to receive additional information regarding these services.' please look the last sentence and I can tell you it was way more than a day for those services. try to get additional info on how long bigquery/bigtable were offline.
    - finikytou 3y ago
      https://www.theregister.com/2023/05/10/google_cloud_paris_outage_persists/ https://www.theregister.com/2023/05/10/google_cloud_paris_ou... https://thenewstack.io/paris-is-drowning-gcps-region-failure-in-age-of-operational-resilience/ https://thenewstack.io/paris-is-drowning-gcps-region-failure...
  - tweenagedream 3y ago
    Can you please link to the incident where the "full region" was down for weeks?
  - metaltyphoon 3y ago
    I like AWS more and use it for my projects but no one can pretend Azure doesn’t exist. I would rather give them my business than GCP.
    - rewmie 3y ago
      Also,one cannot pretend that AWS does not force customers to pay through the nose for its cloud services.
  - aborsy 3y ago
    And, AWS offers a 5$/month VPS with 1 or 2 TB free egress traffic, coupled with affordable S3 with free egress, in a product called Lightsail. Honestly, it’s better than DO and Linode.
  - rewmie 3y ago
    > at this stage the only trustable big computational cloud is AWS. Didn't AWS had in the last year two or three large scale events that paralyzed the web? Edit: here's a discussion over one of the times AWS's us-east-1 was down this year. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36315300 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36315300
- rewmie 3y ago
  > Cloud is for big computational needs that can't be covered by Linde or DO. I don't think this is true at all. The cloud is just a fancy word for using someone else's computational resources, and the cloud's main selling points is not having to host or manage your hardware, and be able to scale on demand. A third less mentioned topic is being able to have global deployments. None of these items imply a limit on how "big" are your computational needs. In fact, it's well established that once a company grows its cloud needs after a threshold, it becomes far more cost-effective and performance to just manage your own hardware and infrastructure. Lastly, even AWS frames itself as the go-to solution to grow from zero to launch.
  - ausudhz 3y ago
    I don't think this is totally true. The selling point of the cloud it's not only what you mentioned, maybe yes at the beginning. Today, is more important the time to market. You can use existing services to build your application, there are customers that don't have access to a pool of data scientist to run their own ML training for example. These would rather benefit from high level services that help them to deliver functionalities just by using APIs. > it becomes far more cost-effective and performance to just manage your own hardware and infrastructure. This is very wrong too. First of all managing hardware is not just buying a server and placing it in your room. There are plenty of other business functions needed to run an effective datacenter. Procurement, hardware eng, sys admin, security (net, app, etc) and the list goes on. You can do that if you reach a critical mass or if you are able to attract the right talents for that. Big enterprise customers will settle for a suboptimal usage of their resources with limited capabilities to expand further or settle for one size fits all. You need a DB? We bought 15mil on Oracle licenses sorry about that, your no SQL needs or your vector search would be better make it work there. As I said earlier, eventually this affects the time to market. Which is a far more important measure than cost for business. Especially thanks to the agility. If it doesn't work they tear it down, you don't need to keep paying for it.
wdb 3y ago
I prefer GCP over some other providers as they don’t ask for a copy of passport. Digital Ocean or OVH is a no go because of that
- KomoD 3y ago
  Never had to do that with Digital Ocean nor OVH
  - is_true 3y ago
    I think they started asking for those a couple of years ago.

If cloud compute is an “Xbox vs. PlayStation” or “iPhone vs. Samsung” type of situation, you are obviously not the type of customer that GCP even tries to attract. Cloud is for big computational needs that can't be covered by Linde or DO.

finikytou 3y ago
yeah and gcp is definitely not for that either. they had a full region down for weeks in paris while pretending they have availability zones (but one fire in one datacenter put everything down). at this stage the only trustable big computational cloud is AWS.
- gbrindisi 3y ago
  wasn’t that OVH?
  - toast0 3y ago
    I think they're referring to this incident?[1] although the timeline in the preliminary report seems to indicate that service disruption in europe-west9 but outside the directly affected zone had ended the day after the incident began. In the directly affected zone, there was water and smoke damage, and it seems like 58% of europe-west9-a was decomissioned as a result. Losing roughly half of the capacity in one of three availability zones for a location would probably make instance availability a lot tighter, and might have impacted the poster in ways that aren't reflected in the report? I work for a gcp customer, but we don't have anything deployed to europe-west9, so I don't have direct exposure. As I recall, we did see some difference in geodns routing on that day, but it was unclear if it was related or not. [1] https://status.cloud.google.com/incidents/dS9ps52MUnxQfyDGPfkY https://status.cloud.google.com/incidents/dS9ps52MUnxQfyDGPf...
    - finikytou 3y ago
      definitly not one day but weeks as I posted links just above. and again they lied about what is a region. don't know why it didnt reach WW news.
      - toast0 3y ago
        The register link says europe-west9-a was still down after weeks, and that -c had a five hour outage the weekend before publishing. The other article was published near the time of the incident and doesn't say anything about the weeks after. europe-west9-a was clearly messed up, and for a long time; which I think is fairly reasonable if you have to toss out at least 58% of the hardware because of water and smoke damage. c'est la vie. That -b and -c were unavailable during the incident is not how availability zones are supposed to work, and it's bad; but you seem to be claiming that -b and -c were down for weeks afterward and I don't see that reflected in the links you shared. If you demand a 3 availability zone system, and one availability zone had a disaster; the right thing to do is to move to another region which has three working azs (and hope that one is properly setup; or request an audit if you've got leverage). Cloudyness is supposed to make it easier to move infrastructure. But if likeminded customers are all moving infrastructure, there's going to be a capacity crunch. OTOH, GCP has several regions in europe-west, and there's a lot of interconnections in Europe in general, so unless you had a requirement to domicile data in France, lots of options.
        finikytou 3y ago
        https://status.cloud.google.com/incidents/dS9ps52MUnxQfyDGPfkY https://status.cloud.google.com/incidents/dS9ps52MUnxQfyDGPf... Multiple Google Cloud services in the europe-west9 region are impacted. 'Water intrusion in a data center in europe-west9 caused a multi-cluster failure that led to a shutdown of multiple zones. We expect some unavailability in the europe-west9 region. There is no current ETA for full recovery of operations in the europe-west9 region at this time. We expected to see an extended outage for some services. Customers are advised to failover to other regions if they are impacted.' can you please explain to me how water intrusion in a data center cause a region failure? there is only one reason. they lied. most likely overhyping the region resiliency. how after seing that can you trust them to host critical apps is beyond belief. and if you look the resolution link I shared they kept hiding reality behind fuzzy language. 'After Regional Spanner, IAM and GCE/PD came back online for the region, almost all of the services in the region fully recovered soon after that. The following services either took longer to recover or had additional impact during the outage. Google Cloud Storage, Google BigQuery, Cloud Bigtable, Cloud SQL, Cloud Pub/Sub, Google Cloud Dataflow Please log a case with our Support team if you would like to receive additional information regarding these services.' please look the last sentence and I can tell you it was way more than a day for those services. try to get additional info on how long bigquery/bigtable were offline.
  - finikytou 3y ago
    https://www.theregister.com/2023/05/10/google_cloud_paris_outage_persists/ https://www.theregister.com/2023/05/10/google_cloud_paris_ou... https://thenewstack.io/paris-is-drowning-gcps-region-failure-in-age-of-operational-resilience/ https://thenewstack.io/paris-is-drowning-gcps-region-failure...
- tweenagedream 3y ago
  Can you please link to the incident where the "full region" was down for weeks?
- metaltyphoon 3y ago
  I like AWS more and use it for my projects but no one can pretend Azure doesn’t exist. I would rather give them my business than GCP.
  - rewmie 3y ago
    Also,one cannot pretend that AWS does not force customers to pay through the nose for its cloud services.
- aborsy 3y ago
  And, AWS offers a 5$/month VPS with 1 or 2 TB free egress traffic, coupled with affordable S3 with free egress, in a product called Lightsail. Honestly, it’s better than DO and Linode.
- rewmie 3y ago
  > at this stage the only trustable big computational cloud is AWS. Didn't AWS had in the last year two or three large scale events that paralyzed the web? Edit: here's a discussion over one of the times AWS's us-east-1 was down this year. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36315300 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36315300
rewmie 3y ago
> Cloud is for big computational needs that can't be covered by Linde or DO. I don't think this is true at all. The cloud is just a fancy word for using someone else's computational resources, and the cloud's main selling points is not having to host or manage your hardware, and be able to scale on demand. A third less mentioned topic is being able to have global deployments. None of these items imply a limit on how "big" are your computational needs. In fact, it's well established that once a company grows its cloud needs after a threshold, it becomes far more cost-effective and performance to just manage your own hardware and infrastructure. Lastly, even AWS frames itself as the go-to solution to grow from zero to launch.
- ausudhz 3y ago
  I don't think this is totally true. The selling point of the cloud it's not only what you mentioned, maybe yes at the beginning. Today, is more important the time to market. You can use existing services to build your application, there are customers that don't have access to a pool of data scientist to run their own ML training for example. These would rather benefit from high level services that help them to deliver functionalities just by using APIs. > it becomes far more cost-effective and performance to just manage your own hardware and infrastructure. This is very wrong too. First of all managing hardware is not just buying a server and placing it in your room. There are plenty of other business functions needed to run an effective datacenter. Procurement, hardware eng, sys admin, security (net, app, etc) and the list goes on. You can do that if you reach a critical mass or if you are able to attract the right talents for that. Big enterprise customers will settle for a suboptimal usage of their resources with limited capabilities to expand further or settle for one size fits all. You need a DB? We bought 15mil on Oracle licenses sorry about that, your no SQL needs or your vector search would be better make it work there. As I said earlier, eventually this affects the time to market. Which is a far more important measure than cost for business. Especially thanks to the agility. If it doesn't work they tear it down, you don't need to keep paying for it.

wdb 3y ago

I prefer GCP over some other providers as they don’t ask for a copy of passport. Digital Ocean or OVH is a no go because of that

KomoD 3y ago
Never had to do that with Digital Ocean nor OVH
- is_true 3y ago
  I think they started asking for those a couple of years ago.