4 ms·

Ask HN: Why Linux development happens on mailing list instead of Git?

12 points by navigate8310 3y ago

Is this because of what isn't broken don't fix?

bhasi 3y ago
Greg KH has talked about this on multiple occasions. The sheer number of developers contributing to the Linux kernel makes anything other than a plaintext email-based workflow impossible.
toastal 3y ago
Instead of Git? Git is just a version control system & it doesn’t dictate the system for communication + review.
- Narushia 3y ago
  I assume they actually mean cloud services built around Git, like GitHub or GitLab.
  - toastal 3y ago
    If this was the case, it’s very important folks know such forges aren’t synonymous with the underlying tool. By all means you are free to use one, but Git (& other DVCSs) doesn’t require a cloud service. …And even if you do use one, it’s recommeneded to still have an email address (mailing list or maintainer’s) for patches so contributors aren’t required to create accounts with these dominantly proprietary services.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
bonzini 3y ago
Assuming you mean GitLab/GitHub, it's mostly one reason: the number of trees and developers makes a single repository unworkable, and neither GitLab nor GitHub have tools to manage pull requests that have to be shared and reviewed across multiple repositories. With email you just Cc multiple mailing lists. In addition, email is much easier to search and look at after the fact than a website. Especially with GitHub I have seen "these commits do not exist anywhere" errors way too often. Related to this, email is easier to mirror. This causes a very problematic lock-in due to how much content is archived on the git forge that you've chosen.
dry_soup 3y ago
Linux kernel development happens on Git. In fact, Git was created for the Linux kernel. Maybe instead of Git you mean GitHub? I can't find a link now, but if I remember right there was a brief period when Linux kernel development had to move to GitHub. Maybe when kernel.org got hacked? Linus Torvalds didn't like the way that GitHub formatted merge commits [1] (from a later date, but I think it was the same issue). [1] https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/CAHk-=wjbtip559HcMG9VQLGPmkurh5Kc50y5BceL8Q8=aL0H3Q@mail.gmail.com/ https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/CAHk-=wjbtip559HcMG9VQLGPmkurh5...
- dikei 3y ago
  Yeah, github Web UI tend to generate low quality commit message that's not up to the standard set by the kernel developers: no oneline short log, long lines, no signed-off line, etc. Linus simply refuses to let those kind of commits into the Kernel. https://github.com/torvalds/linux/pull/17#issuecomment-5654674 https://github.com/torvalds/linux/pull/17#issuecomment-56546...
- mr_sturd 3y ago
  The kernel is certainly mirrored on GitHub[0], but it's not the centre of development. [0] - https://github.com/torvalds/linux https://github.com/torvalds/linux
  - dry_soup 3y ago
    I'm aware of that mirror. What I'm talking about in my comment is that there was a time when the development of the Linux kernel actually moved to GitHub, due to problems with the regular Linux kernel development infrastructure.
    - captn3m0 3y ago
      Don’t remember Linux, but PHP moved development to GitHub after a security incident: https://news-web.php.net/php.internals/113838 https://news-web.php.net/php.internals/113838
- littlestymaar 3y ago
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
treffer 3y ago
Git and LKML predate GitHub, and the kernel was the reason git was born (Torvalds was unhappy with other devecentralized version control software). Anyway, everything wondered where "Pull Requests" come from? Literally an E-Mail saying "please pull my branch ... at ....". Git has special tools to create and apply mails. GitHub copied most of the LKML/kernel development flow and turned it I to a web UI. That's nice, but the text workflow is often faster and easier. And it works. And it is decentralized (a key requirement). So yes. It is not broken. And GitHub would break the decentralized nature to some extent.
morekozhambu 3y ago
[dead]

12 points by navigate8310 3y ago

Is this because of what isn't broken don't fix?

Greg KH has talked about this on multiple occasions. The sheer number of developers contributing to the Linux kernel makes anything other than a plaintext email-based workflow impossible.

toastal 3y ago

Instead of Git? Git is just a version control system & it doesn’t dictate the system for communication + review.

Narushia 3y ago
I assume they actually mean cloud services built around Git, like GitHub or GitLab.
- toastal 3y ago
  If this was the case, it’s very important folks know such forges aren’t synonymous with the underlying tool. By all means you are free to use one, but Git (& other DVCSs) doesn’t require a cloud service. …And even if you do use one, it’s recommeneded to still have an email address (mailing list or maintainer’s) for patches so contributors aren’t required to create accounts with these dominantly proprietary services.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

bonzini 3y ago

Assuming you mean GitLab/GitHub, it's mostly one reason: the number of trees and developers makes a single repository unworkable, and neither GitLab nor GitHub have tools to manage pull requests that have to be shared and reviewed across multiple repositories. With email you just Cc multiple mailing lists. In addition, email is much easier to search and look at after the fact than a website. Especially with GitHub I have seen "these commits do not exist anywhere" errors way too often. Related to this, email is easier to mirror. This causes a very problematic lock-in due to how much content is archived on the git forge that you've chosen.

dry_soup 3y ago

Linux kernel development happens on Git. In fact, Git was created for the Linux kernel. Maybe instead of Git you mean GitHub? I can't find a link now, but if I remember right there was a brief period when Linux kernel development had to move to GitHub. Maybe when kernel.org got hacked? Linus Torvalds didn't like the way that GitHub formatted merge commits [1] (from a later date, but I think it was the same issue). [1] https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/CAHk-=wjbtip559HcMG9VQLGPmkurh5Kc50y5BceL8Q8=aL0H3Q@mail.gmail.com/ https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/CAHk-=wjbtip559HcMG9VQLGPmkurh5...

dikei 3y ago
Yeah, github Web UI tend to generate low quality commit message that's not up to the standard set by the kernel developers: no oneline short log, long lines, no signed-off line, etc. Linus simply refuses to let those kind of commits into the Kernel. https://github.com/torvalds/linux/pull/17#issuecomment-5654674 https://github.com/torvalds/linux/pull/17#issuecomment-56546...
mr_sturd 3y ago
The kernel is certainly mirrored on GitHub[0], but it's not the centre of development. [0] - https://github.com/torvalds/linux https://github.com/torvalds/linux
- dry_soup 3y ago
  I'm aware of that mirror. What I'm talking about in my comment is that there was a time when the development of the Linux kernel actually moved to GitHub, due to problems with the regular Linux kernel development infrastructure.
  - captn3m0 3y ago
    Don’t remember Linux, but PHP moved development to GitHub after a security incident: https://news-web.php.net/php.internals/113838 https://news-web.php.net/php.internals/113838
littlestymaar 3y ago

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

treffer 3y ago

Git and LKML predate GitHub, and the kernel was the reason git was born (Torvalds was unhappy with other devecentralized version control software). Anyway, everything wondered where "Pull Requests" come from? Literally an E-Mail saying "please pull my branch ... at ....". Git has special tools to create and apply mails. GitHub copied most of the LKML/kernel development flow and turned it I to a web UI. That's nice, but the text workflow is often faster and easier. And it works. And it is decentralized (a key requirement). So yes. It is not broken. And GitHub would break the decentralized nature to some extent.

morekozhambu 3y ago

[dead]