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> Things won't get better until cities invest in infrastructure like EU cities have, firm bike lanes and bike infrastructure that is not shared with cars. This

> Things won't get better until cities invest in infrastructure like EU cities have, firm bike lanes and bike infrastructure that is not shared with cars. This is of course the gold standard on larger and faster streets, but remember that even the Netherlands doesn't put separate bike infrastructure on every street. On the smaller neighborhood streets, they... slow down traffic. And it seems to work pretty well. Some background and pictures of what this looks like: https://mobycon.com/updates/sustainable-safety-the-dutch-approach-to-safe-road-design/ https://mobycon.com/updates/sustainable-safety-the-dutch-app...

PrimeMcFly 3y ago
> On the smaller neighborhood streets, they... slow down traffic. And it seems to work pretty well. Interesting. How often is traffic slowed down? Pretty often I guess with the amount of bike riders. And no one cares?
- ryukafalz 3y ago
  From what I can tell (having admittedly only read books/watched urban planning videos/watched ride videos about it and not been there myself yet), neighborhood streets tend not to get used as through-routes. Sometimes because it's naturally slowed by the street design (so why take the slower streets instead of the faster one nearby?), and sometimes because they use barriers to redirect traffic and prevent it. You're only likely to drive on the slower streets if you live there. In the US, drivers have the expectation that they should be able to take any street they want without delay. In the Netherlands that's not true; if you're driving on a fietsstraat for example, you are allowed there but it's explicitly not designed for you. There are other streets you're meant to take. But also: > Pretty often I guess with the amount of bike riders. And no one cares? Probably because just about every driver there also rides a bike, and knows what it feels like from both perspectives. I'm in the US but starting to ride a bike around myself has certainly made me a more careful driver and more understanding of how to react around bikes.
  - PrimeMcFly 3y ago
    > From what I can tell (having admittedly only read books/watched urban planning videos/watched ride videos about it and not been there myself yet), neighborhood streets tend not to get used as through-routes. Sometimes because it's naturally slowed by the street design (so why take the slower streets instead of the faster one nearby?), and sometimes because they use barriers to redirect traffic and prevent it. You're only likely to drive on the slower streets if you live there. Thanks for clarifying. This makes a lot of sense.

PrimeMcFly 3y ago

> On the smaller neighborhood streets, they... slow down traffic. And it seems to work pretty well. Interesting. How often is traffic slowed down? Pretty often I guess with the amount of bike riders. And no one cares?

ryukafalz 3y ago
From what I can tell (having admittedly only read books/watched urban planning videos/watched ride videos about it and not been there myself yet), neighborhood streets tend not to get used as through-routes. Sometimes because it's naturally slowed by the street design (so why take the slower streets instead of the faster one nearby?), and sometimes because they use barriers to redirect traffic and prevent it. You're only likely to drive on the slower streets if you live there. In the US, drivers have the expectation that they should be able to take any street they want without delay. In the Netherlands that's not true; if you're driving on a fietsstraat for example, you are allowed there but it's explicitly not designed for you. There are other streets you're meant to take. But also: > Pretty often I guess with the amount of bike riders. And no one cares? Probably because just about every driver there also rides a bike, and knows what it feels like from both perspectives. I'm in the US but starting to ride a bike around myself has certainly made me a more careful driver and more understanding of how to react around bikes.
- PrimeMcFly 3y ago
  > From what I can tell (having admittedly only read books/watched urban planning videos/watched ride videos about it and not been there myself yet), neighborhood streets tend not to get used as through-routes. Sometimes because it's naturally slowed by the street design (so why take the slower streets instead of the faster one nearby?), and sometimes because they use barriers to redirect traffic and prevent it. You're only likely to drive on the slower streets if you live there. Thanks for clarifying. This makes a lot of sense.