3 ms·

Given that MLS services’ current existence is less about the technical innovation of disseminating market information with a shared database of listings, and mo

Given that MLS services’ current existence is less about the technical innovation of disseminating market information with a shared database of listings, and more about aggressively protecting the status quo of the real estate industry by maintaining information asymmetry between brokers and market participants…I am inclined to react in the style of Jeremy Clarkson: “Oh no! Anyway…”

echelon 3y ago
It's awful that the industry is glued to this dated, monopolistic system. Why hasn't an alternative emerged? It would be amazing for buyers to have access to this system. You could query for homes matching all kinds of wild parameters. Instead, it's all under lock and key. Zillow and the other public systems sit downstream of MLS with a paltry amount of (typically outdated) information. And these are barely searchable.
- housemusicfan 3y ago
  I posed a similar question in another thread. Why hasn't an alternative emerged for SAP? For Concur? All these tools reputedly universally hated, all have near-monopolies. Why? Because few are motivated enough to tackle 'boring' problems. Who wants to design a real estate database when you could be working on self driving-crypto-cloud-next level bullshit?
  - echelon 3y ago
    > Because few are motivated enough to tackle 'boring' problems. Lots of people take on "boring" markets. I don't think that's the problem. Zillow and Redfin are a few steps removed from being MLS themselves. But for some reason they cannot morph into it.
    - housemusicfan 3y ago
      Quite literally they ingest and aggregate MLS data and present it differently with little other value (other than wildly speculating on property values). An MLS "alternative front end" if you will.
      - echelon 3y ago
        They've built most of the systems already. Their next step is to reach out to Keller Williams, Re/Max, and the rest to offer direct listings. If MLS threatens to shut them off, that might be grounds for an antitrust lawsuit. Maybe they're too afraid to risk the business on it? Maybe they did the risk analysis and decided it's not worth it?
        linsomniac 3y ago
        I think you've got this a bit turned around. KW, Re/Max, etc, they don't WANT the MLS out of the way. They ARE the MLS. The MLS is the database of the Realtor association. It's just a tool that the Realtors and Brokers use to market the properties to other Realtors and Brokers, and sometimes to the public as well. Zillow makes money by selling placement on the listings to other agents. Many Realtors really dislike Zillow because of this ("This is MY listing and they are putting someone else's name on it, taking 3% away from me.").
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
      - fatnoah 3y ago
        > Quite literally they ingest and aggregate MLS data... FWIW, I spent time at a large national "disruptor" broker and this is a non-trivial process. There are hundreds of MLS systems in the US, each with its own data, quirks, and synchronization issues. One has to manage so many feeds, cleanup, normalization, etc. Throw in the many data sharing agreements between various MLS systems and the simple act of deduping suddenly gets complicated. For consumers, the value is that they can see an aggregate list in one place without having to sign up for them via an individual broker's site.
    - stevehawk 3y ago
      redfin tried to disrupt the real estate market a decade ago and found out very quickly how anti competitive business markets work
- matthewfcarlson 3y ago
  I’ve dabbled on and off with a much more searchable Zillow with all sorts of crazy filters. I’ve wanted to look across the whole country that less than an hour from an airport, within 10 minutes from a grocery store, and with fiber internet. I’d like to see Zillow or Redfin filter on that
  - dylan604 3y ago
    >and with fiber internet hell, i'd like to filter on that on the websites of fiber providers. they say, "we can't see what areas are covered. we can only see if a specific address is available." i've seen in the days of ADSL that one side of the street was able to get service, but directly across the street was not. Something about how the lines across the street are clustered in older equipment blah blah blah. So they telco doesn't know what equipment where without that specific address lookup.
- macNchz 3y ago
  > Why hasn't an alternative emerged? To my understanding, mostly because the MLS services are owned by realtor associations, and the current model of how they work is highly lucrative to the industry, so they're incentivized to push back on any sort of competition. This is partly through regulatory capture: real estate organizations lobbied state governments to set licensing requirements for who can actually be involved in the real estate market, and only licensed realtors are allowed to access the MLS. There are two major class-action lawsuits currently underway that challenge this: https://www.businessinsider.com/real-estate-agents-lawsuits-buy-sell-homes-forever-housing-market-2023-6 https://www.businessinsider.com/real-estate-agents-lawsuits-...
- linsomniac 3y ago
  >Zillow and the other public systems sit downstream of MLS with a paltry amount of (typically outdated) information. That is largely dependent on the MLS. A lot of Realtors don't really like Zillow, for various reasons that largely boil down to selling marketing on the listings. Our MLS allows individual Realtors to opt-out of sending to Zillow, but otherwise listing data flows over to Zillow within a few minutes usually. Now, if you have one of those opt-out listings, it doesn't mean that Zillow doesn't have the listing, it just means that they get it through other means, and that usually is what leads to outdated information. As far as the amount of information, they have access to, AFAIK, all the listing information, when pulled directly from the MLS. Going via other sources will make that vary.

echelon 3y ago

It's awful that the industry is glued to this dated, monopolistic system. Why hasn't an alternative emerged? It would be amazing for buyers to have access to this system. You could query for homes matching all kinds of wild parameters. Instead, it's all under lock and key. Zillow and the other public systems sit downstream of MLS with a paltry amount of (typically outdated) information. And these are barely searchable.

housemusicfan 3y ago
I posed a similar question in another thread. Why hasn't an alternative emerged for SAP? For Concur? All these tools reputedly universally hated, all have near-monopolies. Why? Because few are motivated enough to tackle 'boring' problems. Who wants to design a real estate database when you could be working on self driving-crypto-cloud-next level bullshit?
- echelon 3y ago
  > Because few are motivated enough to tackle 'boring' problems. Lots of people take on "boring" markets. I don't think that's the problem. Zillow and Redfin are a few steps removed from being MLS themselves. But for some reason they cannot morph into it.
  - housemusicfan 3y ago
    Quite literally they ingest and aggregate MLS data and present it differently with little other value (other than wildly speculating on property values). An MLS "alternative front end" if you will.
    - echelon 3y ago
      They've built most of the systems already. Their next step is to reach out to Keller Williams, Re/Max, and the rest to offer direct listings. If MLS threatens to shut them off, that might be grounds for an antitrust lawsuit. Maybe they're too afraid to risk the business on it? Maybe they did the risk analysis and decided it's not worth it?
      - linsomniac 3y ago
        I think you've got this a bit turned around. KW, Re/Max, etc, they don't WANT the MLS out of the way. They ARE the MLS. The MLS is the database of the Realtor association. It's just a tool that the Realtors and Brokers use to market the properties to other Realtors and Brokers, and sometimes to the public as well. Zillow makes money by selling placement on the listings to other agents. Many Realtors really dislike Zillow because of this ("This is MY listing and they are putting someone else's name on it, taking 3% away from me.").
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - fatnoah 3y ago
      > Quite literally they ingest and aggregate MLS data... FWIW, I spent time at a large national "disruptor" broker and this is a non-trivial process. There are hundreds of MLS systems in the US, each with its own data, quirks, and synchronization issues. One has to manage so many feeds, cleanup, normalization, etc. Throw in the many data sharing agreements between various MLS systems and the simple act of deduping suddenly gets complicated. For consumers, the value is that they can see an aggregate list in one place without having to sign up for them via an individual broker's site.
  - stevehawk 3y ago
    redfin tried to disrupt the real estate market a decade ago and found out very quickly how anti competitive business markets work
matthewfcarlson 3y ago
I’ve dabbled on and off with a much more searchable Zillow with all sorts of crazy filters. I’ve wanted to look across the whole country that less than an hour from an airport, within 10 minutes from a grocery store, and with fiber internet. I’d like to see Zillow or Redfin filter on that
- dylan604 3y ago
  >and with fiber internet hell, i'd like to filter on that on the websites of fiber providers. they say, "we can't see what areas are covered. we can only see if a specific address is available." i've seen in the days of ADSL that one side of the street was able to get service, but directly across the street was not. Something about how the lines across the street are clustered in older equipment blah blah blah. So they telco doesn't know what equipment where without that specific address lookup.
macNchz 3y ago
> Why hasn't an alternative emerged? To my understanding, mostly because the MLS services are owned by realtor associations, and the current model of how they work is highly lucrative to the industry, so they're incentivized to push back on any sort of competition. This is partly through regulatory capture: real estate organizations lobbied state governments to set licensing requirements for who can actually be involved in the real estate market, and only licensed realtors are allowed to access the MLS. There are two major class-action lawsuits currently underway that challenge this: https://www.businessinsider.com/real-estate-agents-lawsuits-buy-sell-homes-forever-housing-market-2023-6 https://www.businessinsider.com/real-estate-agents-lawsuits-...
linsomniac 3y ago
>Zillow and the other public systems sit downstream of MLS with a paltry amount of (typically outdated) information. That is largely dependent on the MLS. A lot of Realtors don't really like Zillow, for various reasons that largely boil down to selling marketing on the listings. Our MLS allows individual Realtors to opt-out of sending to Zillow, but otherwise listing data flows over to Zillow within a few minutes usually. Now, if you have one of those opt-out listings, it doesn't mean that Zillow doesn't have the listing, it just means that they get it through other means, and that usually is what leads to outdated information. As far as the amount of information, they have access to, AFAIK, all the listing information, when pulled directly from the MLS. Going via other sources will make that vary.