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Engineer slapped with suspension after bridge collapsed hours after opening
- RedShift1 3y agoWhy is a single person hired to design a bridge? Wouldn't you hire an engineering firm for that? Seems rather obvious hiring only one person for such a critical job is the wrong thing to do?
- SOLAR_FIELDS 3y agoI am not sure how it works in Canada, but even if it's a firm, isn't a single PE stamp from a person and not a firm what goes onto the plans in the States?
- figassis 3y agoOf the person responsible for the team or firm’s output. Still, the work is done by more than one person, greatly reducing risk and adding to the confidence in that one stamp.
- NoZebra120vClip 3y agoI suppose that's preferable to being slapped with a cantilever
- lostlogin 3y agoIt was a neat miss, we could have had a suspension bridge suspension.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- lampshades 3y agoDesigned a bridge that injures no-one and collapses a few hours later? 5 year suspension. Programmed a faulty flight control system that kills hundreds of people and ground all planes that use it for nearly two years? Probably a promotion, if I had to guess. Can someone remind me why software engineers can't be held to higher standards?
- dudul 3y agoHas this happened? I can't imagine something like this where the software company is not liable. But maybe I'm too naive.
- photonerd 3y agoBecause they would involve holding the entire managerial chain to that standard too. Plus, it’s slower, and we can’t miss those product metrics, right?!? It can be done. Places like NASA do it. For JavaScript too even. …but it has to be a culture thing. Either by choice or by regulation. Because otherwise it ends up being about shoveling crap as fast as possible.
- Dalewyn 3y agoI have an acquaintance who works for one of NASA's laboratories as a technician. The simplified distinction as he explained it to me is: Engineers are the guys who painstakingly design things, with reams of university degrees as appropriate for their credentials. Technicians are the guys who painstakingly implement the engineer's designs on paper into physical things. Academic credentials not necessarily required. The vast majority of the people who call themselves or are called "engineers" should not be called engineers.
- figassis 3y agoThere is also the subset of actual software engineers (incl. degrees) that are hired to rapid fire features. In fact most engineers are hired to do this, because move fast and break things. Usually telling a PM that feature X needs proper analysis and design and that can take multiple sprints, they go “how can we break it into smaller pieces so we can deliver each sprint”. Sometimes you can’t do that. You engineers simply get into developer mode.
- FollowingTheDao 3y agoSorry, they are blaming ONE GUY? No one checked his plans? How does one guy get so much power? Oh, forgot it was the 21st century.
- ajhurliman 3y agoThat’s the gig with becoming a PE: you get a stamp and you can stamp drawings with your approval. You get paid for stamping things, but you incur liability because if they’re not actually safe then it’s on you.
- NoZebra120vClip 3y agoThis is what everyone on HN wants for the tech industry, right? Personal accountability for vulnerabilities, leaks, and downtime? Facebook publishes misinformation? Fire some moderators. Google violates privacy? Fine the SWEs.
- xormapmap 3y agoLiterally yes. We need to legally have the ability to gate release of software if we believe it has significant security vulnerabilities or bugs which could cause harm to human life. We need to be able to make those decisions _without_ some executive overriding them or firing us, and we need to be held responsible with actual fines and prison time when we are negligent with it. Otherwise people will keep dying and software engineers will continue to not be seen as real engineers.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- defrost 3y agoThat's literally how responsibility and the buck stops here works. If you were an Engineer (P.Eng.) you'd be aware of that.
- tw1984 3y agoThe incident happened in 2018 and it took them 5 years to get the engineer suspended?
- Arnt 3y agoThese things are supposed to be as thorough as he wasn't, and there's no hurry. The final order only needs to be ready before the the dates mentioned in it. In this case it needs to be ready before December 2023. They looked at his other bridges in a real hurry. Those were still working as bridges on the day after the collapse. But he stopped working as an engineer and when it's clear that the suspension will be for at least five years, then they've five years in which to be as thorough as they think he should've been.
- coldtea 3y agoHe had taken refuge to the other end of one of his other bridges, and police didn't dare cross it to arrest him...
- anigbrowl 3y agoIt's not great that it took 5 years to reach a decision on this.
- korse 3y agoSarcastic Take: I think we should hold those who call themselves software engineers to similar standards. My view is that the world would be a much better place for it. I know this is tough, because defining safe operating parameters for most software products is near philosophical... but still.
- WirelessGigabit 3y agoThat and mandatory updates to systems.