5 ms·

A few months ago the Supreme Court forced CA counties to begin issuing concealed carry weapon permits: https://oag.ca.gov/system/files/media/legal-alert-oag-202

A few months ago the Supreme Court forced CA counties to begin issuing concealed carry weapon permits: https://oag.ca.gov/system/files/media/legal-alert-oag-2022-03.pdf https://oag.ca.gov/system/files/media/legal-alert-oag-2022-0.... Previously it was up to the discretion of the county's sheriff to issue them, which meant only well-connected people had them. More armed citizens isn't the ultimate solution (people need mental and financial help) but it's better than the current situation.

Rebelgecko 3y ago
I think even with a CCW it's a big no-no to carry in a federal building, so it wouldn't help these folks
- xwdv 3y ago
  Yes it would, you can valet your gun before entering.
  - Rebelgecko 3y ago
    Where/how? Do they have outdoor gun valets? Is the valet an FFL, is there a 10d waiting period when transferring back? How does that work at locations like post offices or the VA, where it's illegal to carry just in the parking lot?
arcticbull 3y ago
There is no reason whatsoever to think that's a better situation than the current one. Different, sure. [edit] A better situation would be if they cleaned this disaster zone up.
- nicolashahn 3y ago
  The city has consistently shown they're unwilling to do this. Getting a CCW is something you as a citizen can do now. Personally, I'm in favor of having an option other than being a victim.
  - arcticbull 3y ago
    There's so much data about this. [1, 2, 3, 4] Just because the city won't do the right thing - doesn't mean you doing the wrong thing makes the situation any better. It just makes it different. [1] https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/hsph-in-the-news/do-guns-make-us-safer-science-suggests-no/ https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/hsph-in-the-news/do-guns-m... [2] https://www.thetrace.org/2020/04/gun-safety-research-coronavirus-gun-sales/ https://www.thetrace.org/2020/04/gun-safety-research-coronav... [3] https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/more-guns-do-not-stop-more-crimes-evidence-shows/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/more-guns-do-not-... [4] https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/firearms-research/gun-threats-and-self-defense-gun-use-2/ https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/firearms-research/gun-thr...
    - throw0101c 3y ago
      There's one study that showed that carrying made things worse for yourself: > Results. After adjustment, individuals in possession of a gun were 4.46 (P < .05) times more likely to be shot in an assault than those not in possession. Among gun assaults where the victim had at least some chance to resist, this adjusted odds ratio increased to 5.45 (P < .05). * https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2759797/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2759797/
  - CameronNemo 3y ago
    You are still a victim even if you shoot someone? Unless you are shooting them for no reason... Do you carry pepper gel or spray? A taser?
nedwin 3y ago
And every county is slow walking the actual issuance. I would be surprised if there has been any material increase in CCW issuance in the last 180 days.
- nicolashahn 3y ago
  I know that several average (non-connected) people have received their CCW issued by San Francisco, which would be absolutely unheard of before Bruen.
rwmj 3y ago
Do I understand this correctly: Crime is out of control and your solution is adding guns?
- alphanullmeric 3y ago
  Because people should have the right to defend themselves and their things. Stealing and assault are not the basic human rights you want them to be.
  - rwmj 3y ago
    > Stealing and assault are not the basic human rights you want them to be I think you may be replying to someone else, because I said no such thing.
    - alphanullmeric 3y ago
      Do you believe I should be able to stop someone from robbing my house when police don’t do their job?
      - avmich 3y ago
        Likely, but for which price?
      - rwmj 3y ago
        I think it would be infinitely preferable if the police did their job. In Europe this works well, I can't see why it couldn't work in the US too.
        nicolashahn 3y ago
        In the US, it's not the police's job. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_v._District_of_Columbia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_v._District_of_Columbia
        collaborative 3y ago

Rebelgecko 3y ago

I think even with a CCW it's a big no-no to carry in a federal building, so it wouldn't help these folks

xwdv 3y ago
Yes it would, you can valet your gun before entering.
- Rebelgecko 3y ago
  Where/how? Do they have outdoor gun valets? Is the valet an FFL, is there a 10d waiting period when transferring back? How does that work at locations like post offices or the VA, where it's illegal to carry just in the parking lot?

arcticbull 3y ago

There is no reason whatsoever to think that's a better situation than the current one. Different, sure. [edit] A better situation would be if they cleaned this disaster zone up.

nicolashahn 3y ago
The city has consistently shown they're unwilling to do this. Getting a CCW is something you as a citizen can do now. Personally, I'm in favor of having an option other than being a victim.
- arcticbull 3y ago
  There's so much data about this. [1, 2, 3, 4] Just because the city won't do the right thing - doesn't mean you doing the wrong thing makes the situation any better. It just makes it different. [1] https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/hsph-in-the-news/do-guns-make-us-safer-science-suggests-no/ https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/hsph-in-the-news/do-guns-m... [2] https://www.thetrace.org/2020/04/gun-safety-research-coronavirus-gun-sales/ https://www.thetrace.org/2020/04/gun-safety-research-coronav... [3] https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/more-guns-do-not-stop-more-crimes-evidence-shows/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/more-guns-do-not-... [4] https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/firearms-research/gun-threats-and-self-defense-gun-use-2/ https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/firearms-research/gun-thr...
  - throw0101c 3y ago
    There's one study that showed that carrying made things worse for yourself: > Results. After adjustment, individuals in possession of a gun were 4.46 (P < .05) times more likely to be shot in an assault than those not in possession. Among gun assaults where the victim had at least some chance to resist, this adjusted odds ratio increased to 5.45 (P < .05). * https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2759797/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2759797/
- CameronNemo 3y ago
  You are still a victim even if you shoot someone? Unless you are shooting them for no reason... Do you carry pepper gel or spray? A taser?

nedwin 3y ago

And every county is slow walking the actual issuance. I would be surprised if there has been any material increase in CCW issuance in the last 180 days.

nicolashahn 3y ago
I know that several average (non-connected) people have received their CCW issued by San Francisco, which would be absolutely unheard of before Bruen.

rwmj 3y ago

Do I understand this correctly: Crime is out of control and your solution is adding guns?

alphanullmeric 3y ago
Because people should have the right to defend themselves and their things. Stealing and assault are not the basic human rights you want them to be.
- rwmj 3y ago
  > Stealing and assault are not the basic human rights you want them to be I think you may be replying to someone else, because I said no such thing.
  - alphanullmeric 3y ago
    Do you believe I should be able to stop someone from robbing my house when police don’t do their job?
    - avmich 3y ago
      Likely, but for which price?
    - rwmj 3y ago
      I think it would be infinitely preferable if the police did their job. In Europe this works well, I can't see why it couldn't work in the US too.
      - nicolashahn 3y ago
        In the US, it's not the police's job. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_v._District_of_Columbia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_v._District_of_Columbia
      - collaborative 3y ago