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Well, in US cities it's possibly for acting like they are cars on the road. Several states grant some right for cyclists to travel in lanes with cars, but in pr

Well, in US cities it's possibly for acting like they are cars on the road. Several states grant some right for cyclists to travel in lanes with cars, but in practice that's absurd. It slows down traffic (to which they defend by saying there is no minimum speed limit), and causes other problems. When you have a frail bicycle riding amongst numerous cars trying to keep up, or inciting rage and causing problems by not being able to, of course there will be accidents. Things won't get better until cities invest in infrastructure like EU cities have, firm bike lanes and bike infrastructure that is not shared with cars.

BrianHenryIE 3y ago
Since I don't drive, if I want to get somewhere that doesn't have public transport going there, are you suggesting I should not be able to go there?
- PrimeMcFly 3y ago
  Can you quote the part of my comment that you think shows I am saying something like that?
  - BrianHenryIE 3y ago
    Seriously? > Several states grant some right for cyclists to travel in lanes with cars, but in practice that's absurd. Which I'll translate for you, from you: > ~It's absurd for cyclists to use the roads So, how do I get to where I need to go?
    - PrimeMcFly 3y ago
      Your translation is off. It's not absurd for bikes to use roads, it's absurd to get in the way of and mix with car traffic as though they were a car. > So, how do I get to where I need to go? Take bike paths, sidewalks, backroads etc. Or lobby your city for better bike infrastructure. Or accept the risk of the increased likelihood that you will end up a statistic.
      - MerelyMortal 3y ago
        Technically the translation is off. But you're probably being downvoted because others don't think that is reasonable. Ideally both types of vehicles should be able to get along, but the reality is that both types of drivers have irrational emotions.
Widdershin 3y ago
I started cycling again a few years ago. I avoided taking the lane while I started, but after being forced into the gutter and nearly side-swiped multiple times, I started regularly taking the lane for my own safety. That’s what really disappointed me about motorists as a cyclist - you give them an inch and they try to kill you.
- Gigachad 3y ago
  There is something about driving that sends otherwise normal people in to a psychopathic rage. If you were walking and someone steps in your way, you wouldn't immediately jump to punching their head in. But same thing in a car and people will just run you over for slowing them down.
- PrimeMcFly 3y ago
  I entirely get that, it's a crappy situation. But the answer is to build better infrastructure, because ad-hoc road sharing is a terrible solution.
drewbug01 3y ago
> Several states grant some right for cyclists to travel in lanes with cars Believe it or not, in some places it's actually required to ride in the road along with cars (my current city, for example). > in practice that's absurd Honestly, agreed. > When you have a frail bicycle riding amongst numerous cars trying to keep up, or inciting rage and causing problems by not being able to, of course there will be accidents. Big yikes, though. Given the likely dire outcomes of collisions between cyclists and cars, and the overarching systems that tend to force cyclists to share the road with drivers in the first place, it feels wrong to me to blame cyclists for "inciting rage".
- PrimeMcFly 3y ago
  > Believe it or not, in some places it's actually required to ride in the road along with cars (my current city, for example). That seems ridiculous! So you have bikes in between cars? How often? > Given the likely dire outcomes of collisions between cyclists and cars, and the overarching systems that tend to force cyclists to share the road with drivers in the first place, it feels wrong to me to blame cyclists for "inciting rage". I mean, the rage would be better directed at the city, but emotion isn't rational. If you have someone riding a bike in a lane, 'taking the lane', and can't be overtaken, and they can only do half the speed limit, of course people are going to get mad at them.
NoZebra120vClip 3y ago
If one drives a car politely and generally obeying laws, one will typically not draw the ire of a road rager down upon oneself. Maybe sometimes, but it's generally infighting among assholes. If you ride a bicycle or some other alternative transportation, the act of existing and using the road will draw road ragers from all sides. I've had several problems. Once I was riding a bicycle down a busy college road and I happened to not be wearing my glasses. So, my fault, right? There was heavy auto traffic and it was all stopped, so I carefully turned left in front of a car, and I got absolutely boned by this amazingly horrible University-owned golf cart doing 25 in the oncoming bicycle lane. I had to basically hold him hostage until the police came to take a report on us. Another time, same bicycle, same college town, I decided to take the left lane, a block ahead, in anticipation of turning left. This was a 35mph 4-lane road. So of course, autos immediately piled up behind me, screeching and honking and vrooming and all kinds of pissed, just because, I guess, they had to make a lane change to go around me, or they could stay there and stay enraged. I escaped with my person and bicycle intact. Very recently, I was trying out the new e-Scooter shares. It is explicitly prohibited to ride them on the sidewalk. So I tootled around the back roads, all 25mph residential, and I was having a lot of fun ringing the little bell. So this chad swoops in front of me on a moped or rice rocket or something. And he slows down and swivels his head and in a kindly condescending tone he said, "you know you're not supposed to ride those in the street?" and so I just rang my bell and smiled. And he turned into the Incredible Hulk. He harried me and spat on my face and screamed at me and honked and stopped short and cut me off and raged for blocks, and I thought I'd never get out alive; it was very upsetting and it is not easy to continue riding when you are so triggered like that. I stayed calm, I didn't do anything against the guy, I sailed to the sidewalk and put the thing down and just walked away. But that put the fear of God into me.
- PrimeMcFly 3y ago
  The golf cart thing sounds like negligence, and I'm glad you were able to file a report. > So of course, autos immediately piled up behind me, screeching and honking and vrooming and all kinds of pissed, just because, I guess, they had to make a lane change to go around me, or they could stay there and stay enraged. To what extent were you impeding the normal flow of traffic? > And he slows down and swivels his head and in a kindly condescending tone he said, "you know you're not supposed to ride those in the street?" and so I just rang my bell and smiled. In no way was the guys reaction justified, but that does sounds like an antagonizing response.
ryukafalz 3y ago
> Things won't get better until cities invest in infrastructure like EU cities have, firm bike lanes and bike infrastructure that is not shared with cars. This is of course the gold standard on larger and faster streets, but remember that even the Netherlands doesn't put separate bike infrastructure on every street. On the smaller neighborhood streets, they... slow down traffic. And it seems to work pretty well. Some background and pictures of what this looks like: https://mobycon.com/updates/sustainable-safety-the-dutch-approach-to-safe-road-design/ https://mobycon.com/updates/sustainable-safety-the-dutch-app...
- PrimeMcFly 3y ago
  > On the smaller neighborhood streets, they... slow down traffic. And it seems to work pretty well. Interesting. How often is traffic slowed down? Pretty often I guess with the amount of bike riders. And no one cares?
  - ryukafalz 3y ago
    From what I can tell (having admittedly only read books/watched urban planning videos/watched ride videos about it and not been there myself yet), neighborhood streets tend not to get used as through-routes. Sometimes because it's naturally slowed by the street design (so why take the slower streets instead of the faster one nearby?), and sometimes because they use barriers to redirect traffic and prevent it. You're only likely to drive on the slower streets if you live there. In the US, drivers have the expectation that they should be able to take any street they want without delay. In the Netherlands that's not true; if you're driving on a fietsstraat for example, you are allowed there but it's explicitly not designed for you. There are other streets you're meant to take. But also: > Pretty often I guess with the amount of bike riders. And no one cares? Probably because just about every driver there also rides a bike, and knows what it feels like from both perspectives. I'm in the US but starting to ride a bike around myself has certainly made me a more careful driver and more understanding of how to react around bikes.
    - PrimeMcFly 3y ago

BrianHenryIE 3y ago

Since I don't drive, if I want to get somewhere that doesn't have public transport going there, are you suggesting I should not be able to go there?

PrimeMcFly 3y ago
Can you quote the part of my comment that you think shows I am saying something like that?
- BrianHenryIE 3y ago
  Seriously? > Several states grant some right for cyclists to travel in lanes with cars, but in practice that's absurd. Which I'll translate for you, from you: > ~It's absurd for cyclists to use the roads So, how do I get to where I need to go?
  - PrimeMcFly 3y ago
    Your translation is off. It's not absurd for bikes to use roads, it's absurd to get in the way of and mix with car traffic as though they were a car. > So, how do I get to where I need to go? Take bike paths, sidewalks, backroads etc. Or lobby your city for better bike infrastructure. Or accept the risk of the increased likelihood that you will end up a statistic.
    - MerelyMortal 3y ago
      Technically the translation is off. But you're probably being downvoted because others don't think that is reasonable. Ideally both types of vehicles should be able to get along, but the reality is that both types of drivers have irrational emotions.

Widdershin 3y ago

I started cycling again a few years ago. I avoided taking the lane while I started, but after being forced into the gutter and nearly side-swiped multiple times, I started regularly taking the lane for my own safety. That’s what really disappointed me about motorists as a cyclist - you give them an inch and they try to kill you.

Gigachad 3y ago
There is something about driving that sends otherwise normal people in to a psychopathic rage. If you were walking and someone steps in your way, you wouldn't immediately jump to punching their head in. But same thing in a car and people will just run you over for slowing them down.
PrimeMcFly 3y ago
I entirely get that, it's a crappy situation. But the answer is to build better infrastructure, because ad-hoc road sharing is a terrible solution.

drewbug01 3y ago

> Several states grant some right for cyclists to travel in lanes with cars Believe it or not, in some places it's actually required to ride in the road along with cars (my current city, for example). > in practice that's absurd Honestly, agreed. > When you have a frail bicycle riding amongst numerous cars trying to keep up, or inciting rage and causing problems by not being able to, of course there will be accidents. Big yikes, though. Given the likely dire outcomes of collisions between cyclists and cars, and the overarching systems that tend to force cyclists to share the road with drivers in the first place, it feels wrong to me to blame cyclists for "inciting rage".

PrimeMcFly 3y ago
> Believe it or not, in some places it's actually required to ride in the road along with cars (my current city, for example). That seems ridiculous! So you have bikes in between cars? How often? > Given the likely dire outcomes of collisions between cyclists and cars, and the overarching systems that tend to force cyclists to share the road with drivers in the first place, it feels wrong to me to blame cyclists for "inciting rage". I mean, the rage would be better directed at the city, but emotion isn't rational. If you have someone riding a bike in a lane, 'taking the lane', and can't be overtaken, and they can only do half the speed limit, of course people are going to get mad at them.

NoZebra120vClip 3y ago

If one drives a car politely and generally obeying laws, one will typically not draw the ire of a road rager down upon oneself. Maybe sometimes, but it's generally infighting among assholes. If you ride a bicycle or some other alternative transportation, the act of existing and using the road will draw road ragers from all sides. I've had several problems. Once I was riding a bicycle down a busy college road and I happened to not be wearing my glasses. So, my fault, right? There was heavy auto traffic and it was all stopped, so I carefully turned left in front of a car, and I got absolutely boned by this amazingly horrible University-owned golf cart doing 25 in the oncoming bicycle lane. I had to basically hold him hostage until the police came to take a report on us. Another time, same bicycle, same college town, I decided to take the left lane, a block ahead, in anticipation of turning left. This was a 35mph 4-lane road. So of course, autos immediately piled up behind me, screeching and honking and vrooming and all kinds of pissed, just because, I guess, they had to make a lane change to go around me, or they could stay there and stay enraged. I escaped with my person and bicycle intact. Very recently, I was trying out the new e-Scooter shares. It is explicitly prohibited to ride them on the sidewalk. So I tootled around the back roads, all 25mph residential, and I was having a lot of fun ringing the little bell. So this chad swoops in front of me on a moped or rice rocket or something. And he slows down and swivels his head and in a kindly condescending tone he said, "you know you're not supposed to ride those in the street?" and so I just rang my bell and smiled. And he turned into the Incredible Hulk. He harried me and spat on my face and screamed at me and honked and stopped short and cut me off and raged for blocks, and I thought I'd never get out alive; it was very upsetting and it is not easy to continue riding when you are so triggered like that. I stayed calm, I didn't do anything against the guy, I sailed to the sidewalk and put the thing down and just walked away. But that put the fear of God into me.

PrimeMcFly 3y ago
The golf cart thing sounds like negligence, and I'm glad you were able to file a report. > So of course, autos immediately piled up behind me, screeching and honking and vrooming and all kinds of pissed, just because, I guess, they had to make a lane change to go around me, or they could stay there and stay enraged. To what extent were you impeding the normal flow of traffic? > And he slows down and swivels his head and in a kindly condescending tone he said, "you know you're not supposed to ride those in the street?" and so I just rang my bell and smiled. In no way was the guys reaction justified, but that does sounds like an antagonizing response.

ryukafalz 3y ago

> Things won't get better until cities invest in infrastructure like EU cities have, firm bike lanes and bike infrastructure that is not shared with cars. This is of course the gold standard on larger and faster streets, but remember that even the Netherlands doesn't put separate bike infrastructure on every street. On the smaller neighborhood streets, they... slow down traffic. And it seems to work pretty well. Some background and pictures of what this looks like: https://mobycon.com/updates/sustainable-safety-the-dutch-approach-to-safe-road-design/ https://mobycon.com/updates/sustainable-safety-the-dutch-app...

PrimeMcFly 3y ago
> On the smaller neighborhood streets, they... slow down traffic. And it seems to work pretty well. Interesting. How often is traffic slowed down? Pretty often I guess with the amount of bike riders. And no one cares?
- ryukafalz 3y ago
  From what I can tell (having admittedly only read books/watched urban planning videos/watched ride videos about it and not been there myself yet), neighborhood streets tend not to get used as through-routes. Sometimes because it's naturally slowed by the street design (so why take the slower streets instead of the faster one nearby?), and sometimes because they use barriers to redirect traffic and prevent it. You're only likely to drive on the slower streets if you live there. In the US, drivers have the expectation that they should be able to take any street they want without delay. In the Netherlands that's not true; if you're driving on a fietsstraat for example, you are allowed there but it's explicitly not designed for you. There are other streets you're meant to take. But also: > Pretty often I guess with the amount of bike riders. And no one cares? Probably because just about every driver there also rides a bike, and knows what it feels like from both perspectives. I'm in the US but starting to ride a bike around myself has certainly made me a more careful driver and more understanding of how to react around bikes.
  - PrimeMcFly 3y ago