5 ms·

Some of this is straight up soft-core child porn. This is fucked up.

by CSSer 3y ago

greggsy 3y ago
I believe illustrations have been deemed to be abuse material, so I wouldn’t be surprised if LE have started looking into it.
- CSSer 3y ago
  Geez that’s disturbing. I clicked having no qualms with nudes, artistic or otherwise. I’m not a prude. I’ve seen my fair share of anime girls and AI nudes. Hell, I was raised on the internet before parental settings were a thing, but I didn’t expect that. It’s so gross how it toes a line too.
  - dingnuts 3y ago
    the Fediverse has a big problem with this, too, and I never hear anyone talking seriously about it
    - GaggiX 3y ago
      context: there are several instances that let you upload illustrations without a restriction on what content the image can contain, it can contain minors, rape, incest. These are instances are between if not the biggest and more active Maastodon instances. The reason why they are so active is because platform like Twitter while having a lot of these stuff too sometimes they will ban your account or at least shadowban you. Many Mastodon instances have banned these ones. In my opinion instances should let the user decide what they find problematic or not and unless it's just spam they shouldn't ban instances.
    - unshavedyak 3y ago
      What is a serious talk, though? Ie what can be done? Isn't it a lot like the internet as a whole; report the offenders if you like then move on? To me it's akin to encryption being used for illicit/illegal activities. Any tool that gives power to people can and will be abused by people you'd want nothing to do with. What did you have in mind?
      - tekknik 3y ago
        probably when someone adds young, childish, and something sexual to the prompt it says no and alerts law enforcement?
        unshavedyak 3y ago
        So is there some system that implements text/image classification for automatic law enforcement submission that you're referring to? Also jurisdiction, etcetc. It all seems incredibly complex. Not a reason to "not try", but i suspect we'll struggle to implement even the most basic thing. And even then, take that basic thing and apply it to every software where users can input data. Plus we'd have to convince everyone to do this. Automatic scanning and submission of data is not a well liked topic. Remember how Apple doing basic CSAM scanning was full of panic? Even if a government _forced_ us to do this, jurisdiction alone would be a big question. Some serious questions that need some serious thought, imo. Is being hand-wavy even worth the time?
        tekknik 3y ago
        you just need you search text, the prompt, for things normal people wouldn’t search for, not at all complex. nobody normal asks AI to create child pornography
        unshavedyak 3y ago
        You picked the easiest (though still not easy imo) thing, and ignored the rest of the complexity haha. If it's so easy i'd love to see your implementation that works multi-language, across all media types, for all jurisdictions and hell handles burden all the massive number of edge cases. Or frankly, any implementation. Whatever you think is easy and everyone should be doing - please point to an E2E implementation of it. Maybe i misunderstand your scope. Something where if a user submits CSAM, or does something to some country authority..?
        tekknik 3y ago
- GaggiX 3y ago
  illustrations are not a problem under the law in the United States, but it has to be seen for generated images indistinguishable from reality or almost.
- kleiba 3y ago
  Who exactly is being abused here? I for one would much rather give pedophiles an opportunity to fulfil their sexual desires through AI-generated pictures than real ones. Of course, we can talk about the training material. Are there actual child porn images in there? I seriously doubt it but who knows? And perhaps a case could be made that AI-generated child porn could be a gateway to invite people who then seek out non-generated material. But I think these are separate discussions to be had.
  - gochi 3y ago
    They aren't separate discussions, they're directly tied to determining abuse material. Revenge porn is an example of abusive material, despite the subject not being abused in the material usually, they're considered abusive material due to the intent to cause abuse through distribution. So if either case applies, whether it's training based on certain images, or it becomes a gateway, these are discussions to be had directly relating to whether or not it should be classified as abuse material. Additionally, I'm not sure if the recommended help methods by professionals who deal with pedophiles is to let them fulfill their specific fantasies without a care. There are lots of really important discussions to be had, but they're all tied to each other basically. We can't separate them out, nor should we aim to.
    - GaggiX 3y ago
      Reading the parent post I think he would believe that revenge porn is abusive material, because there is a person who is getting abused with the distribution of the content, the person didn't consent the distribution. CP is abusive because a child was abused in the creation of the content. The doubt that the author of the parent post has is (from what I understand): who is getting abused with the creation and distribution of a generated image?
      - gochi 3y ago
        They've brought up 3 ways in which it can be abusive (trained on abusive materials, created for the intent to abuse, or continuing self abuse rather than seeking help), but argued those should be separate discussions vs my thinking which is that these are linked to determining if such material is abusive.
jay-barronville 3y ago
Agreed! I just clicked the link and did a double take. I don't care if it's AI. This is child porn material, and in my opinion, it should be shut down.
samstave 3y ago
Yep. There needs to be a REALLY FUCKING STRONG effort to kill all CP AI anything. Full stop. AI should automagically report any attempt at CP.
- colechristensen 3y ago
  If you’re running a service you should have automatic filtering, detection, and such. A model by itself though… you might as well ask a pencil to report someone for drawing graffiti. It does not make sense.
  - eVeechu7 3y ago
    Models have been trained on something though. They are not analogous to pencils or brushes.
    - GaggiX 3y ago
      If you have 4 GB of VRAM, you can finetune a model to whatever you want.
    - BHSPitMonkey 3y ago
      They are responding specifically to the "AI should automatically report" suggestion. An AI model on its own (without a service built up around it) would not have any mechanisms to use the network, reach out to an FBI hotline, or do anything like this. Protections / limits would have to be added by the operator somehow (or the distributor of models themselves).
- nomel 3y ago
  I've always assumed this is what will be used to justify the regulation of AI.
  - SV_BubbleTime 3y ago
    The four horsemen of internet censorship. Money laundering, CSAM, terrorism, drugs.
jvanderbot 3y ago
What can someone do about it?

Some of this is straight up soft-core child porn. This is fucked up.

by CSSer 3y ago

Some of this is straight up soft-core child porn. This is fucked up.

I believe illustrations have been deemed to be abuse material, so I wouldn’t be surprised if LE have started looking into it.

CSSer 3y ago
Geez that’s disturbing. I clicked having no qualms with nudes, artistic or otherwise. I’m not a prude. I’ve seen my fair share of anime girls and AI nudes. Hell, I was raised on the internet before parental settings were a thing, but I didn’t expect that. It’s so gross how it toes a line too.
- dingnuts 3y ago
  the Fediverse has a big problem with this, too, and I never hear anyone talking seriously about it
  - GaggiX 3y ago
    context: there are several instances that let you upload illustrations without a restriction on what content the image can contain, it can contain minors, rape, incest. These are instances are between if not the biggest and more active Maastodon instances. The reason why they are so active is because platform like Twitter while having a lot of these stuff too sometimes they will ban your account or at least shadowban you. Many Mastodon instances have banned these ones. In my opinion instances should let the user decide what they find problematic or not and unless it's just spam they shouldn't ban instances.
  - unshavedyak 3y ago
    What is a serious talk, though? Ie what can be done? Isn't it a lot like the internet as a whole; report the offenders if you like then move on? To me it's akin to encryption being used for illicit/illegal activities. Any tool that gives power to people can and will be abused by people you'd want nothing to do with. What did you have in mind?
    - tekknik 3y ago
      probably when someone adds young, childish, and something sexual to the prompt it says no and alerts law enforcement?
      - unshavedyak 3y ago
        So is there some system that implements text/image classification for automatic law enforcement submission that you're referring to? Also jurisdiction, etcetc. It all seems incredibly complex. Not a reason to "not try", but i suspect we'll struggle to implement even the most basic thing. And even then, take that basic thing and apply it to every software where users can input data. Plus we'd have to convince everyone to do this. Automatic scanning and submission of data is not a well liked topic. Remember how Apple doing basic CSAM scanning was full of panic? Even if a government _forced_ us to do this, jurisdiction alone would be a big question. Some serious questions that need some serious thought, imo. Is being hand-wavy even worth the time?
        tekknik 3y ago
        you just need you search text, the prompt, for things normal people wouldn’t search for, not at all complex. nobody normal asks AI to create child pornography
        unshavedyak 3y ago
        You picked the easiest (though still not easy imo) thing, and ignored the rest of the complexity haha. If it's so easy i'd love to see your implementation that works multi-language, across all media types, for all jurisdictions and hell handles burden all the massive number of edge cases. Or frankly, any implementation. Whatever you think is easy and everyone should be doing - please point to an E2E implementation of it. Maybe i misunderstand your scope. Something where if a user submits CSAM, or does something to some country authority..?
        tekknik 3y ago
GaggiX 3y ago
illustrations are not a problem under the law in the United States, but it has to be seen for generated images indistinguishable from reality or almost.
kleiba 3y ago
Who exactly is being abused here? I for one would much rather give pedophiles an opportunity to fulfil their sexual desires through AI-generated pictures than real ones. Of course, we can talk about the training material. Are there actual child porn images in there? I seriously doubt it but who knows? And perhaps a case could be made that AI-generated child porn could be a gateway to invite people who then seek out non-generated material. But I think these are separate discussions to be had.
- gochi 3y ago
  They aren't separate discussions, they're directly tied to determining abuse material. Revenge porn is an example of abusive material, despite the subject not being abused in the material usually, they're considered abusive material due to the intent to cause abuse through distribution. So if either case applies, whether it's training based on certain images, or it becomes a gateway, these are discussions to be had directly relating to whether or not it should be classified as abuse material. Additionally, I'm not sure if the recommended help methods by professionals who deal with pedophiles is to let them fulfill their specific fantasies without a care. There are lots of really important discussions to be had, but they're all tied to each other basically. We can't separate them out, nor should we aim to.
  - GaggiX 3y ago
    Reading the parent post I think he would believe that revenge porn is abusive material, because there is a person who is getting abused with the distribution of the content, the person didn't consent the distribution. CP is abusive because a child was abused in the creation of the content. The doubt that the author of the parent post has is (from what I understand): who is getting abused with the creation and distribution of a generated image?
    - gochi 3y ago
      They've brought up 3 ways in which it can be abusive (trained on abusive materials, created for the intent to abuse, or continuing self abuse rather than seeking help), but argued those should be separate discussions vs my thinking which is that these are linked to determining if such material is abusive.

jay-barronville 3y ago

Agreed! I just clicked the link and did a double take. I don't care if it's AI. This is child porn material, and in my opinion, it should be shut down.

samstave 3y ago

Yep. There needs to be a REALLY FUCKING STRONG effort to kill all CP AI anything. Full stop. AI should automagically report any attempt at CP.

colechristensen 3y ago
If you’re running a service you should have automatic filtering, detection, and such. A model by itself though… you might as well ask a pencil to report someone for drawing graffiti. It does not make sense.
- eVeechu7 3y ago
  Models have been trained on something though. They are not analogous to pencils or brushes.
  - GaggiX 3y ago
    If you have 4 GB of VRAM, you can finetune a model to whatever you want.
  - BHSPitMonkey 3y ago
    They are responding specifically to the "AI should automatically report" suggestion. An AI model on its own (without a service built up around it) would not have any mechanisms to use the network, reach out to an FBI hotline, or do anything like this. Protections / limits would have to be added by the operator somehow (or the distributor of models themselves).
nomel 3y ago
I've always assumed this is what will be used to justify the regulation of AI.
- SV_BubbleTime 3y ago
  The four horsemen of internet censorship. Money laundering, CSAM, terrorism, drugs.

jvanderbot 3y ago

What can someone do about it?