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We're actually not asking anyone to give up anything. First off, it has a simple integration API (which you'll be able to see the details of next week) that all

We're actually not asking anyone to give up anything. First off, it has a simple integration API (which you'll be able to see the details of next week) that allows it to seamlessly integrate with any other backend tool (databases, monitoring systems, queues, etc.). So Rama can be incrementally introduced into any existing architecture. Second, Rama has a pure Java API and is not a bespoke language. So no new language needs to be learned.

kpw94 3y ago
> Rama can be incrementally introduced into any existing architecture Big if true (and if the opposite, of incrementally removing it also works). There have been similar platform efforts in past, such as https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20985429 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20985429 . For that one, the "massive ask to give up every programming language and database they’ve ever used to depend on a startups closed source platform" seems like the biggest hindrance to adoption.
softwaredoug 3y ago
I can imagine this being really useful from the ground up. Because it looks like it wants to be the source of truth, with different views on the data. It’s hard to imagine it for a complex legacy application without having lots of added complexity. It wants to be the unifying programming model for the application. It would seem like running with two RDMS sources of truth simultaneously. It’s like the xkcd “there are 12 ways of doing X, let’s create a standard to unify them” now there are 13 ways
- fragmede 3y ago
  That's xkcd 927. 9, which is 3^2, and 27, which is 3^3. Or 900 is Yoda's age, and 27 which is the 27 club of musicians who committed suicide.
  - mkl 3y ago
    Most members of the 27 Club didn't die by suicide: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/27_Club https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/27_Club
    - russelg 3y ago
      True, but perhaps you could call drug overdosing suicide.
yazzku 3y ago
What is the licensing of Rama? Is it libre/open?
- masklinn 3y ago
  > We're keeping it closed-source for now.
mikae1 3y ago
> Second, Rama has a pure Java API and is not a bespoke language. So no new language needs to be learned. Isn't Mastodon a Ruby On Rails application?
- theogravity 3y ago
  The article says they re-wrote Mastodon from scratch (probably the backend piece). I'm guessing in Java.
  - nathanmarz 3y ago
    Yes, it's 100% written in Java.
    - newlisp 3y ago
      This looks interesting and a nice weekend read but just skimming through, why is spring needed?
      - newlisp 3y ago
        Nevermind (it has to be paired with some web server/framework).
erlend_sh 3y ago
So Rama-powered apps need to be written in Java? Or will any JVM language work? And the Rama core will remain closed-source? That part seems like the toughest sell of all, at a time when the vast majority of developer tooling and backends are open source or at the very least source-available.
- roguas 3y ago
  Since all jvm languages usually have "ffi" to javaapis/javalibs, I would say yes.
- nathanmarz 3y ago
  Any JVM language should work. We've built modules with Clojure. We're keeping it closed-source for now.
  - vanviegen 3y ago
    > We're keeping it closed-source for now. Rama sounds interesting to me for my 'next big project', but I'd not even consider building it on top of a closed core. I think this is a pretty common sentiment in these circles. I understand building an OSS business is not easy either. But perhaps there is some middle of the road that you can walk? - A contractual obligation to open source all (now current) code a couple of years in the future? - Or an almost-OSS license that makes life difficult for competing cloud providers, like https://www.mongodb.com/licensing/server-side-public-license/faq https://www.mongodb.com/licensing/server-side-public-license... ?
    - anonzzzies 3y ago
      Yep, not OSS licensed is a nope for us for core dependencies. I am aware many here like to sign away freedom (even future viability) for more productivity now (using some new fangled cloud thingy which might/will be gone in a few months to underpin your entire product), but we are not interested in that.

kpw94 3y ago

> Rama can be incrementally introduced into any existing architecture Big if true (and if the opposite, of incrementally removing it also works). There have been similar platform efforts in past, such as https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20985429 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20985429 . For that one, the "massive ask to give up every programming language and database they’ve ever used to depend on a startups closed source platform" seems like the biggest hindrance to adoption.

softwaredoug 3y ago

I can imagine this being really useful from the ground up. Because it looks like it wants to be the source of truth, with different views on the data. It’s hard to imagine it for a complex legacy application without having lots of added complexity. It wants to be the unifying programming model for the application. It would seem like running with two RDMS sources of truth simultaneously. It’s like the xkcd “there are 12 ways of doing X, let’s create a standard to unify them” now there are 13 ways

fragmede 3y ago
That's xkcd 927. 9, which is 3^2, and 27, which is 3^3. Or 900 is Yoda's age, and 27 which is the 27 club of musicians who committed suicide.
- mkl 3y ago
  Most members of the 27 Club didn't die by suicide: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/27_Club https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/27_Club
  - russelg 3y ago
    True, but perhaps you could call drug overdosing suicide.

yazzku 3y ago

What is the licensing of Rama? Is it libre/open?

masklinn 3y ago
> We're keeping it closed-source for now.

mikae1 3y ago

> Second, Rama has a pure Java API and is not a bespoke language. So no new language needs to be learned. Isn't Mastodon a Ruby On Rails application?

theogravity 3y ago
The article says they re-wrote Mastodon from scratch (probably the backend piece). I'm guessing in Java.
- nathanmarz 3y ago
  Yes, it's 100% written in Java.
  - newlisp 3y ago
    This looks interesting and a nice weekend read but just skimming through, why is spring needed?
    - newlisp 3y ago
      Nevermind (it has to be paired with some web server/framework).

erlend_sh 3y ago

So Rama-powered apps need to be written in Java? Or will any JVM language work? And the Rama core will remain closed-source? That part seems like the toughest sell of all, at a time when the vast majority of developer tooling and backends are open source or at the very least source-available.

roguas 3y ago
Since all jvm languages usually have "ffi" to javaapis/javalibs, I would say yes.
nathanmarz 3y ago
Any JVM language should work. We've built modules with Clojure. We're keeping it closed-source for now.
- vanviegen 3y ago
  > We're keeping it closed-source for now. Rama sounds interesting to me for my 'next big project', but I'd not even consider building it on top of a closed core. I think this is a pretty common sentiment in these circles. I understand building an OSS business is not easy either. But perhaps there is some middle of the road that you can walk? - A contractual obligation to open source all (now current) code a couple of years in the future? - Or an almost-OSS license that makes life difficult for competing cloud providers, like https://www.mongodb.com/licensing/server-side-public-license/faq https://www.mongodb.com/licensing/server-side-public-license... ?
  - anonzzzies 3y ago
    Yep, not OSS licensed is a nope for us for core dependencies. I am aware many here like to sign away freedom (even future viability) for more productivity now (using some new fangled cloud thingy which might/will be gone in a few months to underpin your entire product), but we are not interested in that.