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I would argue that this is not "a Mastodon instance", since it is not running Mastodon - other than that, very very neat work! I'm excited for that "Source Code

I would argue that this is not "a Mastodon instance", since it is not running Mastodon - other than that, very very neat work! I'm excited for that "Source Code" link to be live :)

ollien 3y ago
Yeah, I think this is just an ActivityPub server that supports the Mastodon extensions, right? I think we should embrace the fact that the federated world can be diverse, rather than just call everything "Mastodon"
- jauntywundrkind 3y ago
  Mastodon has it's own API. It basically offers a very limited ActivityPub API too, but it's own API is very different. And it's a very slim ActivityPub inplementation. For example, I don't think you can do basic things like get an individual post in ActivityPub. This should be easy simple json-ld to get but it's just 404. https://www.w3.org/TR/activitypub/#retrieving-objects https://www.w3.org/TR/activitypub/#retrieving-objects
  - colatkinson 3y ago
    Mastodon for sure supports fetching individual posts over ActivityPub. For example: curl -L -H 'accept: application/activity+json' 'https://mastodon.social/users/Gargron/statuses/18614983' It does have a bunch of stuff that isn't federated though, such as Like counts/collections. And of course it only implements the server-to-server (S2S) part of AP, not the client-to-server (C2S) part.
  - pmlnr 3y ago
    Mastodon. o. not a.
rvnx 3y ago
I think it's smart from a legal perspective, because the team members seem to partially be coming from companies acquired by Twitter. So I guess, if you say "it's a Mastodon-clone", you cannot be accused of taking proprietary ideas from Twitter (this is just a guess, they know better). But technically very interesting and refreshing to see. I really like their approach. It feels they are innovative.
- progval 3y ago
  From a legal perspective, it's against Mastodon's trademark policy: "Only use the Mastodon marks to accurately identify those goods or services that are built using the Mastodon software." https://joinmastodon.org/trademark https://joinmastodon.org/trademark
Pxtl 3y ago
Yes, a "mastodon-like Fediverse instance running on our proprietary new application/data framework" sounds like a better description. And either way, I think the source code to their Mastodonlike will not be usable since it will be running on their Rama server framework.
frandroid 3y ago
Mastodon-compatible or Mastodon clone... If it quacks and walks like a duck, surely it is part of the aviary family of microblogging services...
mikae1 3y ago
It was a good blog post title choice for making it to the front page of HN.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
nathanmarz 3y ago
We call it a "Mastodon instance" because we implemented the entire Mastodon API (https://docs.joinmastodon.org/api/ https://docs.joinmastodon.org/api/). This is in addition to also implementing the ActivityPub API which Mastodon also implements for federation.
- CharlesW 3y ago
  > We call it a "Mastodon instance" because we implemented the entire Mastodon API… Except "Mastodon instance" means an instance of Mastodon, which is open source. Whether or not it was intended to be deceptive (I'd think a group of smart people would know better), this personally left a bad taste in my mouth.
- legi0nary 3y ago
  If you can do this with Bluesky once it federates we might be able to get away from twitter for good.
  - INTPenis 3y ago
    >We spent nine person-months building our scalable Mastodon instance They federated this brand new code in 9 months, and bluesky still hasn't released anything regarding federation. Don't keep your hopes up, it would kill their business model to let anyone run part of the network. People-driven networks are just not compatible with commercially driven ones, name one successful example.
- dools 3y ago
  "Originally, Twitter was one, monolithic application built with Ruby on Rails. But now, it's divided into about two hundred self-contained services that talk to each other. Each runs atop the JVM, with most written in Scala and some in Java and Clojure"[1] So is Twitter not a Twitter instance? Like if it looks, walks and toots like a Mastodon, is it not a Mastodon instance? [1] https://www.wired.com/2013/09/the-second-coming-of-java/ https://www.wired.com/2013/09/the-second-coming-of-java/
- mal-2 3y ago
  That doesn't match the way people use the term though. Pleroma and Akkoma implement the Mastodon API but wouldn't be called Mastodon instances since they aren't running Mastodon.

I would argue that this is not "a Mastodon instance", since it is not running Mastodon - other than that, very very neat work! I'm excited for that "Source Code" link to be live :)

ollien 3y ago

Yeah, I think this is just an ActivityPub server that supports the Mastodon extensions, right? I think we should embrace the fact that the federated world can be diverse, rather than just call everything "Mastodon"

jauntywundrkind 3y ago
Mastodon has it's own API. It basically offers a very limited ActivityPub API too, but it's own API is very different. And it's a very slim ActivityPub inplementation. For example, I don't think you can do basic things like get an individual post in ActivityPub. This should be easy simple json-ld to get but it's just 404. https://www.w3.org/TR/activitypub/#retrieving-objects https://www.w3.org/TR/activitypub/#retrieving-objects
- colatkinson 3y ago
  Mastodon for sure supports fetching individual posts over ActivityPub. For example: curl -L -H 'accept: application/activity+json' 'https://mastodon.social/users/Gargron/statuses/18614983' It does have a bunch of stuff that isn't federated though, such as Like counts/collections. And of course it only implements the server-to-server (S2S) part of AP, not the client-to-server (C2S) part.
- pmlnr 3y ago
  Mastodon. o. not a.

rvnx 3y ago

I think it's smart from a legal perspective, because the team members seem to partially be coming from companies acquired by Twitter. So I guess, if you say "it's a Mastodon-clone", you cannot be accused of taking proprietary ideas from Twitter (this is just a guess, they know better). But technically very interesting and refreshing to see. I really like their approach. It feels they are innovative.

progval 3y ago
From a legal perspective, it's against Mastodon's trademark policy: "Only use the Mastodon marks to accurately identify those goods or services that are built using the Mastodon software." https://joinmastodon.org/trademark https://joinmastodon.org/trademark

Pxtl 3y ago

Yes, a "mastodon-like Fediverse instance running on our proprietary new application/data framework" sounds like a better description. And either way, I think the source code to their Mastodonlike will not be usable since it will be running on their Rama server framework.

frandroid 3y ago

Mastodon-compatible or Mastodon clone... If it quacks and walks like a duck, surely it is part of the aviary family of microblogging services...

mikae1 3y ago

It was a good blog post title choice for making it to the front page of HN.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

nathanmarz 3y ago

We call it a "Mastodon instance" because we implemented the entire Mastodon API (https://docs.joinmastodon.org/api/ https://docs.joinmastodon.org/api/). This is in addition to also implementing the ActivityPub API which Mastodon also implements for federation.

CharlesW 3y ago
> We call it a "Mastodon instance" because we implemented the entire Mastodon API… Except "Mastodon instance" means an instance of Mastodon, which is open source. Whether or not it was intended to be deceptive (I'd think a group of smart people would know better), this personally left a bad taste in my mouth.
legi0nary 3y ago
If you can do this with Bluesky once it federates we might be able to get away from twitter for good.
- INTPenis 3y ago
  >We spent nine person-months building our scalable Mastodon instance They federated this brand new code in 9 months, and bluesky still hasn't released anything regarding federation. Don't keep your hopes up, it would kill their business model to let anyone run part of the network. People-driven networks are just not compatible with commercially driven ones, name one successful example.
dools 3y ago
"Originally, Twitter was one, monolithic application built with Ruby on Rails. But now, it's divided into about two hundred self-contained services that talk to each other. Each runs atop the JVM, with most written in Scala and some in Java and Clojure"[1] So is Twitter not a Twitter instance? Like if it looks, walks and toots like a Mastodon, is it not a Mastodon instance? [1] https://www.wired.com/2013/09/the-second-coming-of-java/ https://www.wired.com/2013/09/the-second-coming-of-java/
mal-2 3y ago
That doesn't match the way people use the term though. Pleroma and Akkoma implement the Mastodon API but wouldn't be called Mastodon instances since they aren't running Mastodon.