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> everything is repeated every six months to two years Same feeling looking at the new Vercel SQL library. Oh wow now you can write SQL right next to your clie
by antran22 3y ago
> everything is repeated every six months to two years
Same feeling looking at the new Vercel SQL library. Oh wow now you can write SQL right next to your client-facing code, such convenient. You have just rediscovered PHP.
To be fair, frontend frameworks solve a problem. Application can get too big that you cannot manage all the states imperatively. Declarative UI building really help to keep the UI separated from the logic. But then management get greedy and and try to shove all the features they can think of into one single big app. Like, if you went to a page and click a button, going to another page will let you know that you clicked that button and shows up some nice CTA so you won't forget. Frontend people scramble around trying to create new abstraction to keep their working surface manageable. Then you get workflows where to get the result of an API call you have to dispatch a thunk action so it would update in the global store (my example may be antiquated, I'm away from React & Redux for a little while), instead of just, you know, call it and `.then()` update the UI.
Maybe if you have an app that is twice bigger than a normal app, maybe, I don't know, split it into two apps instead? The problem of web development app right now, I think, is because people are being monolithic where it should be independently modular, and then try to cut up your backend service into pieces when a single monolith works fine.
- robertoandred 3y agoPHP can't run in the browser.
- sethrin 3y agoI'd say don't give anyone bad ideas, but we are too late: https://github.com/oraoto/pib https://github.com/oraoto/pib
- antran22 3y agoSorry friend, WordPress already beat you to it: https://github.com/WordPress/wordpress-playground https://github.com/WordPress/wordpress-playground
- antran22 3y agoAh but that's not what I am referring to. If you take a look at Vercel Postgres page [^0], you will see that Vercel is marketing a new way of writing server side rendered code, where you can write SQL code right next to the HTML-ish code for the frontend. So I'm just merely making a (meant to be humorous) comparison with PHP. > PHP can't run in the browser. Well actually, WordPress did it [^1] [^2]. They compiled PHP to WASM, so you can run our favorite web framework in your own browser. I see your point anyway. Systems evolve. Tooling has to follow suit. PHP cannot achieve some of the feat today mega stack can. The problem arises when we apply the latest bleeding edge technology meant for systems that have to serve millions into our little MVP that may have less than 1000 users in your first few years. [0]: https://vercel.com/storage/postgres https://vercel.com/storage/postgres [1]: https://developer.wordpress.org/playground/ https://developer.wordpress.org/playground/ [2]: https://github.com/WordPress/wordpress-playground https://github.com/WordPress/wordpress-playground
- robertoandred 3y agoYou don't need a mega stack to attach an event listener to an element. PHP can't do that.
- omnimus 3y agoI dont think you are listening what he is saying. The vercel sql library is serverside javascript. This could be any language. What the library reinvets is pattern that has been criticised, hated and laughed at not that long ago. Especially in this form of raw sql mixed in between html. It was specifically the react/you-must-have-api crowd who bashed PHP bacause of this. I guess in the end PHP was what people wanted all along.
- robertoandred 3y agoThe Vercel SQL library doesn't mix raw SQL and HTML. It can't, since that'd easily allow public db access on the frontend. What people wanted was the speed of a server-rendered starting point and the flexibility and performance of client-side templating and interactivity. JS/React can deliver this, PHP cannot.