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Canada has a pretend economy for the most part (outside of resources). It's just government money sloshing around, giving us the appearance of participating in

Canada has a pretend economy for the most part (outside of resources). It's just government money sloshing around, giving us the appearance of participating in various industries. Look at AI, video game subsidies, all R&D (SRED is basically a scam), and there are worse ones than that...

rogerkirkness 3y ago
It is surprising how people don't understand this and perceive that actual productivity happens, when in practice it's so uncommon to be unusual. The amount of people who work in "startups" but actually work for government funded accelerators, investment funds that only invest in Shopify, government jobs relating to startup R&D, as opposed to actual startups, is shocking.
- toomuchtodo 3y ago
  If your paycheck is predicted on you not understanding it, why rock the boat? What are the alternatives? Attempt to make a go of a startup yourself with the astoundingly high failure rate? Go work for someone else? Playing pretend can be lucrative and comfortable, and life is hard and unfair; I fault no one for doing so. (if you don't know at all, that's entirely different; situational awareness is invaluable)
- version_five 3y ago
  The amount of people who work in "startups" but actually work for government funded accelerators, investment funds that only invest in Shopify, government jobs relating to startup R&D, as opposed to actual startups, is shocking. Yeah I don't think there's anyone left. It's tough to find certainly a Series A or later that isn't invested in by BDC, CDPQ, etc. They think they're helping but they're actually destroying the potential of the industry, everyone with a good idea just goes to the US.
  - aiunboxed 3y ago
    Heard the startup sync is good in waterloo, how true is it ?
    - rogerkirkness 3y ago
      Not true, I live there. The accelerators are mostly occupied by big companies hoping to convince their team they work for a startup. The number of high quality startups is low and they mostly either raise from the US (what we did) or just relocate there permanently. There's more Waterloo grads working on high quality startups in each of Miami, Austin, SF and New Year than there are here.
      - aiunboxed 3y ago
        Yup, i was there for some time, I remember there was a accelerator on King's street. But yes pretty much occupied by big companies.
- csomar 3y ago
  This seems to be the case across most countries in the world except the US and China. The lack of such funding means the lack of any serious startup scene.
- local_issues 3y ago
  I'm glad to see others say this. Canada is more or less a PR front for the tar sands. That free college for enby First Nations students? The new Montreal REM? Don't ask how they're paid for.
freitzkriesler2 3y ago
Be careful saying as much. You may get downvoted for telling the truth.
andsoitis 3y ago
> Canada has a pretend economy for the most part (outside of resources) What do you mean by “pretend economy”? When I look at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Canada https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Canada and consider Canada’s ranking across a broad range of metrics, it looks pretty real to me. > It's just government money sloshing around, giving us the appearance of participating in various industries Whence does this money hail?
- dboreham 3y ago
  > From whence does the money hail? Not the parent, but a guess: natural resources extraction?
- csomar 3y ago
  Canada is resource rich like Australia or Qatar. It’s certainly doing better, from an economic perspective than Australia due to its neighbor being the first economy in the world. But it doesn’t seem to change the underpinnings. Resource led countries develop power structures around these resources and it doesn’t seem that Canada is immune to that. This affects the economy.
  - andsoitis 3y ago
    > Resource led In addition to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Canada https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Canada (linked above), Investopedia further clarifies that Canada's top industries are [1]: - Real Estate, Rental, Leasing - Manufacturing - Mining, Quarrying, and Oil and Gas Extraction (representing 15.1% of GDP, for the 12 months ending 2021) [1] https://www.investopedia.com/articles/investing/042315/fundamentals-how-canada-makes-its-money.asp https://www.investopedia.com/articles/investing/042315/funda...
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
Elyra 3y ago
don't forget about household debt exceeding GDP, with the housing market just being a ponzi scheme held up by a combination of foreign investors, immigrants, and a lack of new construction.
PaulHoule 3y ago
To play devil's advocate: (1) China is going to do it, so the United States is going to do it, so the EU is going to do it, ... (2) Really the world should just enforce a carbon tax of $50-100 a ton and rebate it to make it revenue neutral. In that case market mechanisms would be harnessed to develop a post-fossil fuel economy. It's conceivable such a mechanism would be perceived as "fair" in one country but it would be so fraught when the global north and south would be involved. The global south would want to be paid reparations for colonization, whereas the north would see the money being stolen and pissed away by governments and well-positioned individuals in the south: the south doesn't have the institutions to be able to received such a windfall. It wouldn't get so far, however, with voters in the south, who would be opposed to such a thing on the basis of simple racism. It is much more palatable therefore to promote decarbonization through random subsidization projects like the above despite all the problems they entail.
- mhb 3y ago
  the world should just enforce How does that work, again?
  - PaulHoule 3y ago
    That's the problem. No one country can do it alone. It's a cop-out that it is simply a problem of the global north because if you add up emissions from developing countries it is a lot https://www.cgdev.org/media/developing-countries-are-responsible-63-percent-current-carbon-emissions https://www.cgdev.org/media/developing-countries-are-respons... If a zone like the US or the EU imposes a carbon tax but some other zone such as China, does not, it will perceive unfair competition. Already everybody in global trade thinks the situation is unfair (This situation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corn_Laws https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corn_Laws that dominated UK politics in 1850 still dominates world politics today and is the real reason why the WTO hasn't recovered from "The Battle of Seattle") It is the mother of all https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_action_problem https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_action_problem and the answer we seem to have chosen is ecological collapse and die-off. Whoever is left behind is going to turn their backs on everything our civilization stands for (look how Rome's literature was purposefully destroyed;) it would be hopeful that people would embrace some kind of governance to deal with global problems by then but which much fewer people those problems might not seem so salient and that rejection might be more fundamental than that.
TMWNN 3y ago
>Canada has a pretend economy for the most part (outside of resources). I've heard Canada described as three mining companies standing on each other wearing an overcoat.

rogerkirkness 3y ago

It is surprising how people don't understand this and perceive that actual productivity happens, when in practice it's so uncommon to be unusual. The amount of people who work in "startups" but actually work for government funded accelerators, investment funds that only invest in Shopify, government jobs relating to startup R&D, as opposed to actual startups, is shocking.

toomuchtodo 3y ago
If your paycheck is predicted on you not understanding it, why rock the boat? What are the alternatives? Attempt to make a go of a startup yourself with the astoundingly high failure rate? Go work for someone else? Playing pretend can be lucrative and comfortable, and life is hard and unfair; I fault no one for doing so. (if you don't know at all, that's entirely different; situational awareness is invaluable)
version_five 3y ago
The amount of people who work in "startups" but actually work for government funded accelerators, investment funds that only invest in Shopify, government jobs relating to startup R&D, as opposed to actual startups, is shocking. Yeah I don't think there's anyone left. It's tough to find certainly a Series A or later that isn't invested in by BDC, CDPQ, etc. They think they're helping but they're actually destroying the potential of the industry, everyone with a good idea just goes to the US.
- aiunboxed 3y ago
  Heard the startup sync is good in waterloo, how true is it ?
  - rogerkirkness 3y ago
    Not true, I live there. The accelerators are mostly occupied by big companies hoping to convince their team they work for a startup. The number of high quality startups is low and they mostly either raise from the US (what we did) or just relocate there permanently. There's more Waterloo grads working on high quality startups in each of Miami, Austin, SF and New Year than there are here.
    - aiunboxed 3y ago
      Yup, i was there for some time, I remember there was a accelerator on King's street. But yes pretty much occupied by big companies.
csomar 3y ago
This seems to be the case across most countries in the world except the US and China. The lack of such funding means the lack of any serious startup scene.
local_issues 3y ago
I'm glad to see others say this. Canada is more or less a PR front for the tar sands. That free college for enby First Nations students? The new Montreal REM? Don't ask how they're paid for.

freitzkriesler2 3y ago

Be careful saying as much. You may get downvoted for telling the truth.

andsoitis 3y ago

> Canada has a pretend economy for the most part (outside of resources) What do you mean by “pretend economy”? When I look at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Canada https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Canada and consider Canada’s ranking across a broad range of metrics, it looks pretty real to me. > It's just government money sloshing around, giving us the appearance of participating in various industries Whence does this money hail?

dboreham 3y ago
> From whence does the money hail? Not the parent, but a guess: natural resources extraction?
csomar 3y ago
Canada is resource rich like Australia or Qatar. It’s certainly doing better, from an economic perspective than Australia due to its neighbor being the first economy in the world. But it doesn’t seem to change the underpinnings. Resource led countries develop power structures around these resources and it doesn’t seem that Canada is immune to that. This affects the economy.
- andsoitis 3y ago
  > Resource led In addition to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Canada https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Canada (linked above), Investopedia further clarifies that Canada's top industries are [1]: - Real Estate, Rental, Leasing - Manufacturing - Mining, Quarrying, and Oil and Gas Extraction (representing 15.1% of GDP, for the 12 months ending 2021) [1] https://www.investopedia.com/articles/investing/042315/fundamentals-how-canada-makes-its-money.asp https://www.investopedia.com/articles/investing/042315/funda...
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

Elyra 3y ago

don't forget about household debt exceeding GDP, with the housing market just being a ponzi scheme held up by a combination of foreign investors, immigrants, and a lack of new construction.

PaulHoule 3y ago

To play devil's advocate: (1) China is going to do it, so the United States is going to do it, so the EU is going to do it, ... (2) Really the world should just enforce a carbon tax of $50-100 a ton and rebate it to make it revenue neutral. In that case market mechanisms would be harnessed to develop a post-fossil fuel economy. It's conceivable such a mechanism would be perceived as "fair" in one country but it would be so fraught when the global north and south would be involved. The global south would want to be paid reparations for colonization, whereas the north would see the money being stolen and pissed away by governments and well-positioned individuals in the south: the south doesn't have the institutions to be able to received such a windfall. It wouldn't get so far, however, with voters in the south, who would be opposed to such a thing on the basis of simple racism. It is much more palatable therefore to promote decarbonization through random subsidization projects like the above despite all the problems they entail.

mhb 3y ago
the world should just enforce How does that work, again?
- PaulHoule 3y ago
  That's the problem. No one country can do it alone. It's a cop-out that it is simply a problem of the global north because if you add up emissions from developing countries it is a lot https://www.cgdev.org/media/developing-countries-are-responsible-63-percent-current-carbon-emissions https://www.cgdev.org/media/developing-countries-are-respons... If a zone like the US or the EU imposes a carbon tax but some other zone such as China, does not, it will perceive unfair competition. Already everybody in global trade thinks the situation is unfair (This situation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corn_Laws https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corn_Laws that dominated UK politics in 1850 still dominates world politics today and is the real reason why the WTO hasn't recovered from "The Battle of Seattle") It is the mother of all https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_action_problem https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_action_problem and the answer we seem to have chosen is ecological collapse and die-off. Whoever is left behind is going to turn their backs on everything our civilization stands for (look how Rome's literature was purposefully destroyed;) it would be hopeful that people would embrace some kind of governance to deal with global problems by then but which much fewer people those problems might not seem so salient and that rejection might be more fundamental than that.

TMWNN 3y ago

>Canada has a pretend economy for the most part (outside of resources). I've heard Canada described as three mining companies standing on each other wearing an overcoat.