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It must be obvious to everyone else then but not me, would be good to get an explanation. My first reaction, and still reaction, to JSX is loathing at the mixin

It must be obvious to everyone else then but not me, would be good to get an explanation. My first reaction, and still reaction, to JSX is loathing at the mixing of JS + HTML. JSX's site says that this is a way of recognizing they are tied together and the focus is on separating concerns instead of technologies. Yet Angular manages to do a similar thing through its components, and still achieve separation of HTML/JS.

horsawlarway 3y ago
Angular is a fucking abomination on this front. Angular doesn't separate concerns at all, it just ties it all together with an entirely new and un-intuitive DSL that you have to now write in the HTML. Just look at your DSL here: https://angular.io/guide/binding-syntax#types-of-data-binding https://angular.io/guide/binding-syntax#types-of-data-bindin... You abso-fucking-lutely are writing code in your html, you're just writing a crippled version of their custom DSL instead of plain old javascript. Frankly - I much prefer to write plain old javascript instead of learning a new bastard language that isn't useful anywhere else. JSX achieves that relatively well. It's not entirely plain old javascript. But it's about as close as I've seen anyone get for a template language complete with data binding. EJS https://ejs.co/ https://ejs.co/ was my pick before JSX. For similar reasons - I don't want to have to learn a dsl which is just a shoddy wrapper for the JS anyways. Just let me write the damn javascript.
- gabereiser 3y ago
  EJS was my pick as well. Shame. I feel like Preact is closer to nirvana but then Svelte comes along. Ideal state: I want a tag, that represents a class, that binds its attributes to properties and subscribes to changes, that encapsulates this within the tag class, including styling. I’m very fricking close to this with web components and default Vite build. The only gotcha is having to bring along a few utility classes I wrote that glued it all together. Fewer than 40 lines.
jallen_dot_dev 3y ago
> and still achieve separation of HTML/JS. Why is this important to maintain? People have been complaining about this since the beginning, but I've never seen anyone actually articulate what the problem is.
- svachalek 3y ago
  Before React and this generation of frameworks, we had jQuery. In the jQuery world your site should work without JS. The page downloads, it's a usable page, and then your script starts attaching to elements to make the page more dynamic and responsive, if possible. If not, you still have the page. It seems to me that progressive enhancement was a genuinely great idea, but somehow the true concept got lost. Nowadays some insist it's ok to have a site that won't begin to do anything without JS, but at the same time it's not OK to mix JS into the HTML code. That somehow we're preserving the purity of HTML as a display layer just by putting it in a separate file.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - gabereiser 3y ago
    The biggest pet peeve of mine is when I'm presented a UI that doesn't function because the javascript hasn't loaded yet. Do not show me a UI if it doesn't work when I press/touch it. More, if I visit your site and your UI doesn't present itself within 1-3s, there should be some alternative UI presented that explains why (rather than just a white page).

horsawlarway 3y ago

Angular is a fucking abomination on this front. Angular doesn't separate concerns at all, it just ties it all together with an entirely new and un-intuitive DSL that you have to now write in the HTML. Just look at your DSL here: https://angular.io/guide/binding-syntax#types-of-data-binding https://angular.io/guide/binding-syntax#types-of-data-bindin... You abso-fucking-lutely are writing code in your html, you're just writing a crippled version of their custom DSL instead of plain old javascript. Frankly - I much prefer to write plain old javascript instead of learning a new bastard language that isn't useful anywhere else. JSX achieves that relatively well. It's not entirely plain old javascript. But it's about as close as I've seen anyone get for a template language complete with data binding. EJS https://ejs.co/ https://ejs.co/ was my pick before JSX. For similar reasons - I don't want to have to learn a dsl which is just a shoddy wrapper for the JS anyways. Just let me write the damn javascript.

gabereiser 3y ago
EJS was my pick as well. Shame. I feel like Preact is closer to nirvana but then Svelte comes along. Ideal state: I want a tag, that represents a class, that binds its attributes to properties and subscribes to changes, that encapsulates this within the tag class, including styling. I’m very fricking close to this with web components and default Vite build. The only gotcha is having to bring along a few utility classes I wrote that glued it all together. Fewer than 40 lines.

jallen_dot_dev 3y ago

> and still achieve separation of HTML/JS. Why is this important to maintain? People have been complaining about this since the beginning, but I've never seen anyone actually articulate what the problem is.

svachalek 3y ago
Before React and this generation of frameworks, we had jQuery. In the jQuery world your site should work without JS. The page downloads, it's a usable page, and then your script starts attaching to elements to make the page more dynamic and responsive, if possible. If not, you still have the page. It seems to me that progressive enhancement was a genuinely great idea, but somehow the true concept got lost. Nowadays some insist it's ok to have a site that won't begin to do anything without JS, but at the same time it's not OK to mix JS into the HTML code. That somehow we're preserving the purity of HTML as a display layer just by putting it in a separate file.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- gabereiser 3y ago
  The biggest pet peeve of mine is when I'm presented a UI that doesn't function because the javascript hasn't loaded yet. Do not show me a UI if it doesn't work when I press/touch it. More, if I visit your site and your UI doesn't present itself within 1-3s, there should be some alternative UI presented that explains why (rather than just a white page).