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> But complicated and potentially dangerous components like lithium-ion batteries – which require special tools, skills and experience to operate on correctly –

> But complicated and potentially dangerous components like lithium-ion batteries – which require special tools, skills and experience to operate on correctly – are another matter. What special tools, skills, and experience is required to unscrew a battery pack? How is this a legit strategy, to artificially make a product difficult to repair then claim it needs to be excluded from the law? Didn’t right to repair gain traction from exactly this type of garbage? Ie John Deere, phones with heavily glued batteries that then show fake warnings in the OS etc.

nullc 3y ago
Lots of ways to hurt yourself working on a car too. Many of the things we teach people in primary school really only serves the purpose of making them familar with the subject so that they can be more savvy consumers of expert help in the future. The loss of exposure to things like shop class seems to be resulting in waves of people that think it's okay to outlaw repair because they don't understand it themselves.
jdietrich 3y ago
>What special tools, skills, and experience is required to unscrew a battery pack? An e-bike fire is no joke. If you don't know what you're doing, you can easily turn a li-ion pack into an incendiary device. Aside from the safety issues, there's a huge reputational issue for the industry. I don't like the idea of restricting the right to repair, but I really don't like the idea of sharing an apartment building with some guy who replaced the cells in his e-bike battery pack because he watched a YouTube video and figured that it can't be that difficult. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5jGYWhGnJ4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5jGYWhGnJ4
- Etrnl_President 3y ago
  Try https://batteryuniversity.com/ https://batteryuniversity.com/
- avery17 3y ago
  Then your apartment complex should ban ebikes repairs, not the state.
  - cykotic 3y ago
    Sometimes a regulation needs to be done at the government level for the protection of everyone. For instance, we didn’t leave it up to individual apartment complexes on whether or not they wanted to implement ADA requirements or fire detectors. It’s generally bad policy to leave it up to landlords on whether or not something should done or banned for safety reasons. Their default mode is to do nothing.
- getarofilter 3y ago
  [dead]
- shortcake27 3y ago
  I think you may have missed my point, but that’s my fault because I was being facetious. When I need to replace the battery in my car, I don’t open up the battery to replace the plates and acid. I buy a new battery (from a brand and store of my choosing) and recycle the old one. Why are ebikes different? Why are people having to replace the cells in the pack? Because the manufacturer has made it impossible to get a aftermarket replacement battery pack. So I’m saying the solution is for manufacturers to build their products in a way that makes it easy and safe to replace the battery (without lockin), instead of intentionally building products that are difficult/unsafe to repair and using that to claim the product needs to be excluded from right to repair.
  - euroderf 3y ago
    So then, e-bike replacement battery packs should be as easily available and as easily changeable as car batteries. Problem solved ? What am I missing ?
    - shortcake27 3y ago
      > What am I missing ? That vendor lockin and difficult-to-replace parts were a significant driving force behind right to repair, yet ebike manufacturers have successfully used artificial difficulty as a reason to exclude their products from the law.
    - tim333 3y ago
      I'm looking at a 2nd hand ebike for sale and the battery on it talks to the computer on the handlebars and reports its charge level. It's not like a car battery which is presently just a battery.
      - kjkjadksj 3y ago
        It is still just a battery. The battery on that ebike like every other ebike on the market is actually exactly the same: an array of common 18650 batteries packaged into a plastic “pack”.
      - deleted 3y ago

nullc 3y ago

Lots of ways to hurt yourself working on a car too. Many of the things we teach people in primary school really only serves the purpose of making them familar with the subject so that they can be more savvy consumers of expert help in the future. The loss of exposure to things like shop class seems to be resulting in waves of people that think it's okay to outlaw repair because they don't understand it themselves.

jdietrich 3y ago

>What special tools, skills, and experience is required to unscrew a battery pack? An e-bike fire is no joke. If you don't know what you're doing, you can easily turn a li-ion pack into an incendiary device. Aside from the safety issues, there's a huge reputational issue for the industry. I don't like the idea of restricting the right to repair, but I really don't like the idea of sharing an apartment building with some guy who replaced the cells in his e-bike battery pack because he watched a YouTube video and figured that it can't be that difficult. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5jGYWhGnJ4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5jGYWhGnJ4

Etrnl_President 3y ago
Try https://batteryuniversity.com/ https://batteryuniversity.com/
avery17 3y ago
Then your apartment complex should ban ebikes repairs, not the state.
- cykotic 3y ago
  Sometimes a regulation needs to be done at the government level for the protection of everyone. For instance, we didn’t leave it up to individual apartment complexes on whether or not they wanted to implement ADA requirements or fire detectors. It’s generally bad policy to leave it up to landlords on whether or not something should done or banned for safety reasons. Their default mode is to do nothing.
getarofilter 3y ago
[dead]
shortcake27 3y ago
I think you may have missed my point, but that’s my fault because I was being facetious. When I need to replace the battery in my car, I don’t open up the battery to replace the plates and acid. I buy a new battery (from a brand and store of my choosing) and recycle the old one. Why are ebikes different? Why are people having to replace the cells in the pack? Because the manufacturer has made it impossible to get a aftermarket replacement battery pack. So I’m saying the solution is for manufacturers to build their products in a way that makes it easy and safe to replace the battery (without lockin), instead of intentionally building products that are difficult/unsafe to repair and using that to claim the product needs to be excluded from right to repair.
- euroderf 3y ago
  So then, e-bike replacement battery packs should be as easily available and as easily changeable as car batteries. Problem solved ? What am I missing ?
  - shortcake27 3y ago
    > What am I missing ? That vendor lockin and difficult-to-replace parts were a significant driving force behind right to repair, yet ebike manufacturers have successfully used artificial difficulty as a reason to exclude their products from the law.
  - tim333 3y ago
    I'm looking at a 2nd hand ebike for sale and the battery on it talks to the computer on the handlebars and reports its charge level. It's not like a car battery which is presently just a battery.
    - kjkjadksj 3y ago
      It is still just a battery. The battery on that ebike like every other ebike on the market is actually exactly the same: an array of common 18650 batteries packaged into a plastic “pack”.
    - deleted 3y ago