5 ms·

I'm 27 so I think I'm just a couple years outside of this generation that can't find jobs. That said, I'm pretty sick and damned tired of seeing lists of things

I'm 27 so I think I'm just a couple years outside of this generation that can't find jobs. That said, I'm pretty sick and damned tired of seeing lists of things keeping these 20-somethings from succeeding. It's time for people to man up (Though I'm not excluding women) and take responsibility for themselves and stop complaining about externalities keeping them from success and just go out and succeed. The problem isn't the lack of jobs it's this loser, "The world is against me", attitude. One of the young people quoted in the article said, "not for the types of positions I'm qualified for". Another quipped about a living wage. Does this person even know what a living wage is or what that means? Frankly, this article looks like it's full of over privileged cry-babies sad that life isn't working out as perfect as they hoped. I say it's time for them to pivot on life and stop the damned whining.

DanBC 15y ago
Harsh. Let's assume, for this discussion, that what you say is true, and that many people are stuck by perceived not actual problems. That's not good for them, or for the economy. What would you do to help them move forward with their life? How would you help them break out of this cycle? What changes would you make? Or is it really as simple as telling them to "man up"? To "get on their bike"[1]? [1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_Tebbit http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_Tebbit) > *"I grew up in the '30s with an unemployed father. He didn't riot. He got on his bike and looked for work, and he kept looking 'til he found it."
- hnal943 15y ago
  It is constructive to have social pressure against failure. These people have no shame about their situation, because it's socially acceptable to blame their problems on others. Referring to this group as "Generation Stuck" is indicative of this coddling culture.
garyrichardson 15y ago
I've wondered for a while now if this whiner generation actually complains about how the world is against them more, or if it's just easier for them to be heard. In particular, I'm thinking social media is the big culprit here. I also would expect some sort of tipping point: "Oh, you can't afford to live in the city because you can't get a job in pharma too? Wow, our generation is having a tough time." I'm 30, own about 15% of a home and have a wife and kids. I've never been unemployed. I attribute this to not expecting the world to give me anything, like a living wage, student loans, cheap mortgage, etc. Plenty of people in my peer group are also successful, but there are still those who 'fail' and go from scheme to scheme trying to get a high paying, easy job. At the end of the day, life is not a video game and you are not the hero. If you're lucky, you might might be a middle manager on the death star construction team.
- sanderjd 15y ago
  Get over yourself. It's great that you're 30, have assets and a good life, and have never been unemployed. Huge swaths of the generation you so casually refer to as "whiners" will never have the chance to make those claims regardless of what they do or don't expect from the world, and you scoff at them from your comfortable perch. Let's have some perspective - when kids decide whether and where to go to college, and agree to take on its debt, they are 17 and know nothing about the world, about job markets, about mortgage rates, about growth industries and dying industries. They are told by their parents and other adult influencers to study what they are passionate about because in America you can be whatever you want to be if you try hard enough and if you go to a good school. So the dumb 17-year-olds of this "whiner" generation went to college during a strong economy and played along with all the adult assurances that they would do great, and they graduated to a world with no work and especially not for most people who studied something they were "passionate" about. It's such crap to scorn people for regretting decisions they were led into when they were clueless. People need to take responsibility for their own success, but our society needs to be thinking long and hard about how it has failed this generation and how to avoid failing the subsequent ones.
  - infinite8s 15y ago
    The issue is that in the last generation the age of maturity/critical thinking has gone from early teens to late teens. I find it amazing that 17 year olds have been so isolated from the world that they believe that no matter what they study in college, they can graduate and easily get a high paying job no matter what they studied.
rbarooah 15y ago
Strangely, instead of cry-babies, I saw people making a cogent argument that the costs of moving are high and the job market is very uncertain, and that under those conditions the risks of moving to a place without an adequate support network outweigh the benefits. They might be wrong, but you haven't made a single point that contradicts this, nor have you made any constructive suggestions.
asolove 15y ago
It's hard to point blame in one specific direction. Yes, you are right they should take responsibility. But these are people who grew up doing the "responsible" thing and listening to the advice of teachers and parents. They made good grades whether or not they learned, did extracurricular activities whether or not they enjoyed them, and otherwise put aside any sort of personal decision-making for 21 years, in the idea that a college degree would get them "success." Given that, it isn't enough to just say "get a job, bum." They need some new, concrete picture of how life works. With ideas like, do things you enjoy and practice hard to get better at them, not to impress other people. Or, work hard even at things you don't like, if it gets you the money, time, or skills you need to do something else later. And then the question is, how would you arrange a family or a school that produces people who have these ideas naturally? Probably there'd be a lot more opportunities for kids to do meaningful work/play, apprentice learning a trade, and less focusing on getting into a prestigious school.
- Duff 15y ago
  I have a group of friends who have master's degrees in art education (from a private school), and are stuck being substitute art teachers and waiting tables, because there are few openings for art teachers. In their minds, they did the "responsible" thing. They got good grades, went $100k+ plus in debt, and are waiting tables at age 28. The problem is, they didn't do the responsible thing -- they used alot of someone else's money to learn a skill of very narrow utility. Now they need to pay the piper. People lack a critical eye. It's amazing to me that people advise high school kids the way that they do. Frankly, I don't know how people do it. My wife and I make a good buck, own a modest home and drive one 5 year old car. We don't owe anyone anything, and we save alot, so we're "broke". I don't know how people fit a $400 student loan payment in, while living a non-frugal lifestyle.
  - MatthewPhillips 15y ago
    High school students are getting advice that made since in the 1970s (when the people who are advising them went to school). Go to college, "find yourself", expand your horizons, etc. Then, that made you special. Today it just makes you one of many without any discernible skills.
jiggy2011 15y ago
Telling people to "stop whining" isn't that constructive. I was unemployed about 5 years ago before the recession had really dug it's teeth in and even then it was tough. Spending days applying for every posting I was vaguely qualified for online and also physically hitting the pavement and handing out my CV to every business on the street. Also having to make decisions about whether it was better to get my suit dry-cleaned so as to be more presentable if I ever got an interview or whether I should eat next week. After a few month of this I get all kinds of people telling me I should "try harder" and "If you really wanted a job you would have one". Well what exactly do you expect me to do? I applied for hundreds of jobs and for the most part heard absolutely nothing back, I would try and call up and inquire about my application but whoever answered the phone generally had strict instructions to get rid of people like me ASAP.
- csomar 15y ago
  I would stop from applying after the 10th time. If you failed to get a job in 3-4 applications, something is wrong about your CV, presentation, or you. There is something wrong, it's your responsibility to fix it and try again. Personally, I won't say to a candidate you SUCK or you did that thing the wrong way. I'll just apologize that another candidate took the position. Advice from someone who was there: Go and build a network. Get the job from the network.
  - jiggy2011 15y ago
    I must have rewritten my CV countless times during my job hunt at that point as well as having many people proof read it with me, I'm sure it was never perfect but I can be fairly confident that it was better put together than the majority of CVs floating around from unemployed people at the time. Regarding presentation, I was always washed, wore the best suit I could afford and paid attention to body language what I was saying to people. Not sure what else I could have done, it's not like you can suddenly become a handsome , charismatic person on a whim. There was also the issue that many jobs wouldn't accept a CV and would simply direct you to an online or paper application where everything had to be filled into discreet boxes and provided little opportunity to make yourself stand out. Of course the networking advice is good, most of the jobs I have had have been through networking with people I knew and getting in that way. This is easier in some places than others of course, since I was living in an industrial town in england there was not exactly a thriving tech scene. More a small collection of freelancers and satellite offices from larger companies. The majority of people there worked for the government in one way or anther too, where the only way to get those jobs is to fill out the application form. It is not always obvious as to how to get an "in" if you don't already know people.
tmh88j 15y ago
>stop complaining about externalities keeping them from success and just go out and succeed. The majority of people do not want to be entrepreneurs so their only option is to work for someone else where you are faced with more external forces. When you're in that situation, most people want to do the minimum and earn the maximum which we know rarely works. Let's face it, being an entrepreneur is not for everyone. It's a lot of work and responsibility; something the majority of 20-somethings can't handle. >Another quipped about a living wage I would feel discouraged too if I was only being paid $15 an hour after going to school for 4 years. I agree with you, there are definitely things you can do to ameliorate yourself and improve your chances of finding a job. You don't seem to have the "average person" mentality of doing just the minimum to achieve your goals, so I sense some disconnect there. I could just be reading into it too much.
- jiggy2011 15y ago
  Not to mention the costs associated with beginning a business on your own. Of course this varies a lot depending on the business too. Even for say doing some freelance programming which has low costs since all you need is a computer and some open source software. As soon as you start your business you will be cut off from government benefits so you will not have any income until you get your first payment. Since most companies interested in hiring you for a job will not want to pay you up front since as a new business your going to be seen as pretty high risk your going to need a way of covering your living costs for at least 2-3 months most likely. If your fresh out of college and already riddled with debt the chances that you have those kind of savings in the bank is pretty minimal.
- true_religion 15y ago
  Small business (or as call it "cottage industry") was the way many people survived in cities before the industrial revolution hit it stride. I don't believe its beyond the capabilities of mere mortals today to do. What people dislike about entrepreneurship is the search for something to sell to people. On the otherhand, many would prefer working for themselves if it could pay, and they had a clearly defined role to slip into.
  - 15y ago
grantheaslip 15y ago
That kind of mindset is a lot easier to espouse when you (and a lot of the visitors to this site) are in one of the few industries that wasn't particularly affected by the recession, and for that matter is arguably in the midst of a bubble. We're all lucky -- if your chosen profession (and, say, one that you invested 8+ years of expensive American college to get into) was an industry that had the air sucked out of it in 2008, you might not be so condescending. I do get what you're saying, and I think there definitely is a type of person you're describing, but you're oversimplifying a measurably more complicated problem.
roc 15y ago
To be fair, the drop in economic activity necessarily means that everyone can not simply tug harder on their boot straps. Could most individuals do more? Possibly. But it would only deliver improved outcomes if they're doing more relative to everyone else. It's rather the definition of the slump we're in: the economy as a whole is spending less and taking fewer risks. So no matter what they do, there are only so many jobs. No matter how many of them start their own businesses, there is only so much spending going on. And while it's obvious and correct that perspective- and attitude-adjustments can only help and that whining and blaming never does, to think that a run of life like that won't have eroded people's attitude and outlook is something between naive and crass.
funkah 15y ago
One one hand I agree, on the other I sometimes feel like Indiana Jones outrunning the boulder -- I had a head start so I didn't get crushed, and they did. I don't have much quantitative reasoning for that feeling, I suppose, it's just that I started my career in 2004 when the economy had briefly recovered before going into the shitter for good. People I know who got out of school just a year before me had a noticeably harder time getting jobs because the economy was still rough in 2003, and it impacted their careers pretty seriously. And now it seems like everyone trying to start a career are in a battle royale for table scraps. So, I agree that "woe is me" won't get you anywhere, but also everything is fucked-up and on fire. Thank goodness for software, though I doubt this ride will last much longer either. Someone will find a way to cut our cost out of the equation for good.
ryaf 15y ago
This. I'm 26 and I had a decent paying software job in Florida. But I wanted to move up to New York so I convinced my job to let me work remotely. I made the move 2 months after they allowed me to work remotely. I sold a bunch of my possessions, made sure everything could fit into my car, gave away my furniture to my mom, and did the entire move for around $800 of my own money. (I had a place to stay when I got up here) So I agree. These people sound foolish. It is entirely possible to move but that means getting rid of shit and people do not want to get rid of their shit. It's a bit sad really.
- jiggy2011 15y ago
  That's assuming you are young ,(presumably) have no kids and have a job that will let you will let you work remotely (the vast majority , like 95%+ will not).
  - ryaf 15y ago
    The article was mainly referencing people in my position (young and no kids)...
- rbarooah 15y ago
  I assume you are aware that software is currently a booming industry, unlike most of the rest of the economy (other notable exceptions being finance and medicine).
  - ryaf 15y ago
    Yes I am aware. I also noted that I am paid decently, maybe I should have made it clearer that I am paid decently for FL which is most certainly not the same in NY.
    - rbarooah 15y ago
      It's not just the amount of pay that people are having difficulty with - it's the relative difficulty of finding work. Coders are in demand at the moment, so we don't have that problem.
jandrewrogers 15y ago
Another aspect of this that I noticed among many of my own friends when we were in our 20s and poor is that most people from a middle-class background have no idea how to live inexpensively. Many other problems follow from this chronic overspending when they cannot afford it. The thing is, they thought they were being "frugal" but the reality is that they were not even close. If you look, for example, how most immigrants bootstrap from nothing their spending patterns and priorities look very different and they usually manage to save quite a bit of money over time. Savings plays a huge role in flexibility. When you are in your 20s without family, it is eminently possible to bootstrap enough savings from a really crappy jobs and even temp jobs to have the flexibility to move if you need to and still live an okay lifestyle even in a new city. Been there, done that. Very modest but comfortable. You would not want to live this way forever but it is only a bootstrap. It also instills good habits toward not buying a lot of "stuff" once you have a good paying job. I will add that this same pattern applies to people with very good jobs too. I know people making six-figures that swear they are just getting by, paycheck to paycheck, with no savings. Their definition of "absolute necessity" gets stretched to the breaking point but they literally do not know how to live on less money. I do not have much sympathy in cases like this but it is also part of a larger pattern of people militantly refusing to live below their means.

DanBC 15y ago

Harsh. Let's assume, for this discussion, that what you say is true, and that many people are stuck by perceived not actual problems. That's not good for them, or for the economy. What would you do to help them move forward with their life? How would you help them break out of this cycle? What changes would you make? Or is it really as simple as telling them to "man up"? To "get on their bike"[1]? [1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_Tebbit http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_Tebbit) > *"I grew up in the '30s with an unemployed father. He didn't riot. He got on his bike and looked for work, and he kept looking 'til he found it."

hnal943 15y ago
It is constructive to have social pressure against failure. These people have no shame about their situation, because it's socially acceptable to blame their problems on others. Referring to this group as "Generation Stuck" is indicative of this coddling culture.

garyrichardson 15y ago

I've wondered for a while now if this whiner generation actually complains about how the world is against them more, or if it's just easier for them to be heard. In particular, I'm thinking social media is the big culprit here. I also would expect some sort of tipping point: "Oh, you can't afford to live in the city because you can't get a job in pharma too? Wow, our generation is having a tough time." I'm 30, own about 15% of a home and have a wife and kids. I've never been unemployed. I attribute this to not expecting the world to give me anything, like a living wage, student loans, cheap mortgage, etc. Plenty of people in my peer group are also successful, but there are still those who 'fail' and go from scheme to scheme trying to get a high paying, easy job. At the end of the day, life is not a video game and you are not the hero. If you're lucky, you might might be a middle manager on the death star construction team.

sanderjd 15y ago
Get over yourself. It's great that you're 30, have assets and a good life, and have never been unemployed. Huge swaths of the generation you so casually refer to as "whiners" will never have the chance to make those claims regardless of what they do or don't expect from the world, and you scoff at them from your comfortable perch. Let's have some perspective - when kids decide whether and where to go to college, and agree to take on its debt, they are 17 and know nothing about the world, about job markets, about mortgage rates, about growth industries and dying industries. They are told by their parents and other adult influencers to study what they are passionate about because in America you can be whatever you want to be if you try hard enough and if you go to a good school. So the dumb 17-year-olds of this "whiner" generation went to college during a strong economy and played along with all the adult assurances that they would do great, and they graduated to a world with no work and especially not for most people who studied something they were "passionate" about. It's such crap to scorn people for regretting decisions they were led into when they were clueless. People need to take responsibility for their own success, but our society needs to be thinking long and hard about how it has failed this generation and how to avoid failing the subsequent ones.
- infinite8s 15y ago
  The issue is that in the last generation the age of maturity/critical thinking has gone from early teens to late teens. I find it amazing that 17 year olds have been so isolated from the world that they believe that no matter what they study in college, they can graduate and easily get a high paying job no matter what they studied.

rbarooah 15y ago

Strangely, instead of cry-babies, I saw people making a cogent argument that the costs of moving are high and the job market is very uncertain, and that under those conditions the risks of moving to a place without an adequate support network outweigh the benefits. They might be wrong, but you haven't made a single point that contradicts this, nor have you made any constructive suggestions.

asolove 15y ago

It's hard to point blame in one specific direction. Yes, you are right they should take responsibility. But these are people who grew up doing the "responsible" thing and listening to the advice of teachers and parents. They made good grades whether or not they learned, did extracurricular activities whether or not they enjoyed them, and otherwise put aside any sort of personal decision-making for 21 years, in the idea that a college degree would get them "success." Given that, it isn't enough to just say "get a job, bum." They need some new, concrete picture of how life works. With ideas like, do things you enjoy and practice hard to get better at them, not to impress other people. Or, work hard even at things you don't like, if it gets you the money, time, or skills you need to do something else later. And then the question is, how would you arrange a family or a school that produces people who have these ideas naturally? Probably there'd be a lot more opportunities for kids to do meaningful work/play, apprentice learning a trade, and less focusing on getting into a prestigious school.

Duff 15y ago
I have a group of friends who have master's degrees in art education (from a private school), and are stuck being substitute art teachers and waiting tables, because there are few openings for art teachers. In their minds, they did the "responsible" thing. They got good grades, went $100k+ plus in debt, and are waiting tables at age 28. The problem is, they didn't do the responsible thing -- they used alot of someone else's money to learn a skill of very narrow utility. Now they need to pay the piper. People lack a critical eye. It's amazing to me that people advise high school kids the way that they do. Frankly, I don't know how people do it. My wife and I make a good buck, own a modest home and drive one 5 year old car. We don't owe anyone anything, and we save alot, so we're "broke". I don't know how people fit a $400 student loan payment in, while living a non-frugal lifestyle.
- MatthewPhillips 15y ago
  High school students are getting advice that made since in the 1970s (when the people who are advising them went to school). Go to college, "find yourself", expand your horizons, etc. Then, that made you special. Today it just makes you one of many without any discernible skills.

jiggy2011 15y ago

Telling people to "stop whining" isn't that constructive. I was unemployed about 5 years ago before the recession had really dug it's teeth in and even then it was tough. Spending days applying for every posting I was vaguely qualified for online and also physically hitting the pavement and handing out my CV to every business on the street. Also having to make decisions about whether it was better to get my suit dry-cleaned so as to be more presentable if I ever got an interview or whether I should eat next week. After a few month of this I get all kinds of people telling me I should "try harder" and "If you really wanted a job you would have one". Well what exactly do you expect me to do? I applied for hundreds of jobs and for the most part heard absolutely nothing back, I would try and call up and inquire about my application but whoever answered the phone generally had strict instructions to get rid of people like me ASAP.

csomar 15y ago
I would stop from applying after the 10th time. If you failed to get a job in 3-4 applications, something is wrong about your CV, presentation, or you. There is something wrong, it's your responsibility to fix it and try again. Personally, I won't say to a candidate you SUCK or you did that thing the wrong way. I'll just apologize that another candidate took the position. Advice from someone who was there: Go and build a network. Get the job from the network.
- jiggy2011 15y ago
  I must have rewritten my CV countless times during my job hunt at that point as well as having many people proof read it with me, I'm sure it was never perfect but I can be fairly confident that it was better put together than the majority of CVs floating around from unemployed people at the time. Regarding presentation, I was always washed, wore the best suit I could afford and paid attention to body language what I was saying to people. Not sure what else I could have done, it's not like you can suddenly become a handsome , charismatic person on a whim. There was also the issue that many jobs wouldn't accept a CV and would simply direct you to an online or paper application where everything had to be filled into discreet boxes and provided little opportunity to make yourself stand out. Of course the networking advice is good, most of the jobs I have had have been through networking with people I knew and getting in that way. This is easier in some places than others of course, since I was living in an industrial town in england there was not exactly a thriving tech scene. More a small collection of freelancers and satellite offices from larger companies. The majority of people there worked for the government in one way or anther too, where the only way to get those jobs is to fill out the application form. It is not always obvious as to how to get an "in" if you don't already know people.

tmh88j 15y ago

>stop complaining about externalities keeping them from success and just go out and succeed. The majority of people do not want to be entrepreneurs so their only option is to work for someone else where you are faced with more external forces. When you're in that situation, most people want to do the minimum and earn the maximum which we know rarely works. Let's face it, being an entrepreneur is not for everyone. It's a lot of work and responsibility; something the majority of 20-somethings can't handle. >Another quipped about a living wage I would feel discouraged too if I was only being paid $15 an hour after going to school for 4 years. I agree with you, there are definitely things you can do to ameliorate yourself and improve your chances of finding a job. You don't seem to have the "average person" mentality of doing just the minimum to achieve your goals, so I sense some disconnect there. I could just be reading into it too much.

jiggy2011 15y ago
Not to mention the costs associated with beginning a business on your own. Of course this varies a lot depending on the business too. Even for say doing some freelance programming which has low costs since all you need is a computer and some open source software. As soon as you start your business you will be cut off from government benefits so you will not have any income until you get your first payment. Since most companies interested in hiring you for a job will not want to pay you up front since as a new business your going to be seen as pretty high risk your going to need a way of covering your living costs for at least 2-3 months most likely. If your fresh out of college and already riddled with debt the chances that you have those kind of savings in the bank is pretty minimal.
true_religion 15y ago
Small business (or as call it "cottage industry") was the way many people survived in cities before the industrial revolution hit it stride. I don't believe its beyond the capabilities of mere mortals today to do. What people dislike about entrepreneurship is the search for something to sell to people. On the otherhand, many would prefer working for themselves if it could pay, and they had a clearly defined role to slip into.
- 15y ago

grantheaslip 15y ago

That kind of mindset is a lot easier to espouse when you (and a lot of the visitors to this site) are in one of the few industries that wasn't particularly affected by the recession, and for that matter is arguably in the midst of a bubble. We're all lucky -- if your chosen profession (and, say, one that you invested 8+ years of expensive American college to get into) was an industry that had the air sucked out of it in 2008, you might not be so condescending. I do get what you're saying, and I think there definitely is a type of person you're describing, but you're oversimplifying a measurably more complicated problem.

roc 15y ago

To be fair, the drop in economic activity necessarily means that everyone can not simply tug harder on their boot straps. Could most individuals do more? Possibly. But it would only deliver improved outcomes if they're doing more relative to everyone else. It's rather the definition of the slump we're in: the economy as a whole is spending less and taking fewer risks. So no matter what they do, there are only so many jobs. No matter how many of them start their own businesses, there is only so much spending going on. And while it's obvious and correct that perspective- and attitude-adjustments can only help and that whining and blaming never does, to think that a run of life like that won't have eroded people's attitude and outlook is something between naive and crass.

funkah 15y ago

One one hand I agree, on the other I sometimes feel like Indiana Jones outrunning the boulder -- I had a head start so I didn't get crushed, and they did. I don't have much quantitative reasoning for that feeling, I suppose, it's just that I started my career in 2004 when the economy had briefly recovered before going into the shitter for good. People I know who got out of school just a year before me had a noticeably harder time getting jobs because the economy was still rough in 2003, and it impacted their careers pretty seriously. And now it seems like everyone trying to start a career are in a battle royale for table scraps. So, I agree that "woe is me" won't get you anywhere, but also everything is fucked-up and on fire. Thank goodness for software, though I doubt this ride will last much longer either. Someone will find a way to cut our cost out of the equation for good.

ryaf 15y ago

This. I'm 26 and I had a decent paying software job in Florida. But I wanted to move up to New York so I convinced my job to let me work remotely. I made the move 2 months after they allowed me to work remotely. I sold a bunch of my possessions, made sure everything could fit into my car, gave away my furniture to my mom, and did the entire move for around $800 of my own money. (I had a place to stay when I got up here) So I agree. These people sound foolish. It is entirely possible to move but that means getting rid of shit and people do not want to get rid of their shit. It's a bit sad really.

jiggy2011 15y ago
That's assuming you are young ,(presumably) have no kids and have a job that will let you will let you work remotely (the vast majority , like 95%+ will not).
- ryaf 15y ago
  The article was mainly referencing people in my position (young and no kids)...
rbarooah 15y ago
I assume you are aware that software is currently a booming industry, unlike most of the rest of the economy (other notable exceptions being finance and medicine).
- ryaf 15y ago
  Yes I am aware. I also noted that I am paid decently, maybe I should have made it clearer that I am paid decently for FL which is most certainly not the same in NY.
  - rbarooah 15y ago
    It's not just the amount of pay that people are having difficulty with - it's the relative difficulty of finding work. Coders are in demand at the moment, so we don't have that problem.

jandrewrogers 15y ago

Another aspect of this that I noticed among many of my own friends when we were in our 20s and poor is that most people from a middle-class background have no idea how to live inexpensively. Many other problems follow from this chronic overspending when they cannot afford it. The thing is, they thought they were being "frugal" but the reality is that they were not even close. If you look, for example, how most immigrants bootstrap from nothing their spending patterns and priorities look very different and they usually manage to save quite a bit of money over time. Savings plays a huge role in flexibility. When you are in your 20s without family, it is eminently possible to bootstrap enough savings from a really crappy jobs and even temp jobs to have the flexibility to move if you need to and still live an okay lifestyle even in a new city. Been there, done that. Very modest but comfortable. You would not want to live this way forever but it is only a bootstrap. It also instills good habits toward not buying a lot of "stuff" once you have a good paying job. I will add that this same pattern applies to people with very good jobs too. I know people making six-figures that swear they are just getting by, paycheck to paycheck, with no savings. Their definition of "absolute necessity" gets stretched to the breaking point but they literally do not know how to live on less money. I do not have much sympathy in cases like this but it is also part of a larger pattern of people militantly refusing to live below their means.