6 ms·

I have spent < an year in US (mostly in California) and found the America behaviour to be very polite in speech but indifferent/mean in actions. The passive agg

by jatins 3y ago

I have spent < an year in US (mostly in California) and found the America behaviour to be very polite in speech but indifferent/mean in actions. The passive aggressive behavior seemed quite common. As an outsider sometimes you are not aware of cultural norms, but I always felt the margin for error for what Americans considered "acceptable" was too narrow. There was no benefit of doubt, and sometimes an explicit dislike for someone who did not immediately fit in.

BrandoElFollito 3y ago
I visited the US many times (probably 40+, a week to month long stays) mostly in Chicago and Phoenix. I always clearly explained that I am a foreigner and do not know how to do this or that and I was given ample information. The one time it did not work is when I had breakfast in a diner in Arizona and left my table after paying. A lady (also a customer) dropped le and time me how come I can leave without bringing my plate back. I was so surprised that I asked "this is what you do here in restaurants? Cleaning after yourselves?". She got mad and told me how I was misbehaved and everything. She was clearly a weirdo, though.
thraxil 3y ago
> I have spent < an year in US (mostly in California) and found the America behaviour to be very polite in speech but indifferent/mean in actions. The passive aggressive behavior seemed quite common It's worth noting that in the US, that's a stereotype of the west coast and California in particular. The contrast with NYC is particularly frequently cited. New Yorkers have a reputation for being very direct and coming across as rude but will actually be very nice and helpful once you get past that. New Yorkers will call you names that would make a sailor blush, and then immediately rush to help a woman carry her stroller up the subway steps.
jelliclesfarm 3y ago
This is why immigrants jive and fit well with other immigrants. I am in hell right now..dealing with harassment(in the legal sense of the word)from a CA public agency, no less. Everyday I fantasize about quitting something I love because the psychological impact is too much to bear. The only thing that keeps me going is that one day I hope karma will kick in… I have become a lot meaner at heart. I wonder if I will turn into a tyrant if I ever acquire power. In California, the worst racism I have faced is in Berkeley where they wear their progressiveness on the sleeve.
fakedang 3y ago
I'm divided on this. I've found Californians, especially those of the tech type you'd find here in HN, and I've found many to be of exactly that nature. On the other hand, I've been to NY and the Midwest, and they've been extremely polite, in speech and action. It was funny how a policeman in Kenosha is very polite to a non-white me, or how most New Yorkers were extremely helpful, often giving me extras or guiding me throughout the city or what not, in spite of the bad reputations both have seemingly earned online. The truth is that countries, or even cities, are not monolithic entities. It's entirely possible for each place to have two characters. In the same NYC that was largely kind to me, I was also stalked at by some lowlife with presumably evil intentions.
- giantg2 3y ago
  NYC is not known for polite communication. In fact, they have a reputation for being loud and direct, which often comes across as rude to outsiders. Of course it is not everyone, but it is one of the stereotypes.
  - monooso 3y ago
    The PP is aware of this (emphasis mine): > ...in spite of the bad reputations both have seemingly earned online
    - giantg2 3y ago
      That's the thing, it's not just online. IRL there are reputations.
      - fakedang 3y ago
        I meant that as someone exposed to their bad reputations from what other people say online. I know, should've worded it better. NYC folks are portrayed as loudmouths, arrogant and moneyminded, even on TV. But honestly, one can be that, and yet also polite and kind at other times.
  - AnimalMuppet 3y ago
soco 3y ago
This is something I noticed as well, and in more general terms, the importance put in the States on the appearances. For example, from what I've read here many US Americans are quick to point out that tipping culture is essential for giving you an always smiling waiter, while for me it's more important to know whether behind that smile there's a big "fuck you". I'd rather have an invisible waiter sticking with doing their job of serving people. Not that I don't like smiles, but I appreciate sincerity more.
- ethanbond 3y ago
  tipping isn’t important in order to get a smile, it’s important because it’s a critical part of their wage. And yeah, if they do their job decently and you take that away, they’ll be upset (as you would too). It’s a terrible custom in most ways but I don’t think you got a good explanation.
  - soco 3y ago
    Their argument was in favor of keeping the tipping culture, as in not paying them the real wage because you'd lOsE ThAt sMiLe (as forced as it might be). Yes, I find this terrible as well.
    - red-iron-pine 3y ago
      who is "their" argument? everyone knows its a ploy to make the servers work harder and obfuscate true costs of the meal.
      - BrandoElFollito 3y ago
        Isn't there a tax incentive for the waiters to get their wage in time rather than salary? After all, waiters could just refuse this system and they would get a normal salary like they do in Europe.
        ethanbond 3y ago
ajdude 3y ago
From the other side, I'm American who spent time in Europe and I felt similar.I don't want to use the term “uptight” but I can't think of a better word. No, I’m not trying to be disrespectful and I’m doing my best to be respectful. But it was culture shock and I wasn't used to the array of “we don’t do that here” and “you can’t dress like that there” etc. I was kind of on eggshells in many interactions over things that noone would give a second thought to in the US. (For context, I visited The Netherlands, Belgium, and France)
- piva00 3y ago
  Could you give examples of what kind of behaviours generated a "we don't do that here" or "you can't dress like that there"? Dutch/Belgian and French culture are quite different, even between Dutch and Belgian there are enough differences to create some friction, and I'm asking for examples because I would never expect a "you can't dress like that there" from Dutch people, for example. Uptight, surely, there are plenty of pockets of uptight cultures in Europe, even more in their largest cities. I consider Stockholm uptight as fuck but on the other hand I'd say that Malmö is pretty relaxed. Using Europe as a single, homogeneous thing is the same mistake as calling the USA a homogeneous culture. There are traces of culture in both places that are quite orthogonal across many regions but there's so many regional differences that it becomes irrelevant.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- CalRobert 3y ago
  Sounds a bit Doe Normaal. Not the most endearing cultural trait. But then, when we lived in Ireland nobody would _tell_ us that they thought we were freaks for wearing colourful clothes or not caring about church or athletics, they would just insult us behind our backs.
trilbyglens 3y ago
I have to say that this phenomenon seems much more visible and extreme in denser urban areas. I'm an American who has lived in Europe for almost 20 years, and me and my family just completed a 2 week camping trip in rural Colorado and New Mexico and we had a fantastic time. People out in the country and in smaller towns seem to be a lot more friendly and open to getting to know you. I'm not defending the US as I'm often the first to shit on it culturally, but I would definitely suggest getting out if California tbh.
jsbisviewtiful 3y ago
> The passive aggressive behavior seemed quite common. As someone in their 30's struggling to deal with the passive aggressive, unflinchingly uncaring and overall dismissive behaviors of my city's people, I could definitely see this being a trend in my fellow Americans. All lip service and nothing more.

by jatins 3y ago

BrandoElFollito 3y ago

I visited the US many times (probably 40+, a week to month long stays) mostly in Chicago and Phoenix. I always clearly explained that I am a foreigner and do not know how to do this or that and I was given ample information. The one time it did not work is when I had breakfast in a diner in Arizona and left my table after paying. A lady (also a customer) dropped le and time me how come I can leave without bringing my plate back. I was so surprised that I asked "this is what you do here in restaurants? Cleaning after yourselves?". She got mad and told me how I was misbehaved and everything. She was clearly a weirdo, though.

thraxil 3y ago

> I have spent < an year in US (mostly in California) and found the America behaviour to be very polite in speech but indifferent/mean in actions. The passive aggressive behavior seemed quite common It's worth noting that in the US, that's a stereotype of the west coast and California in particular. The contrast with NYC is particularly frequently cited. New Yorkers have a reputation for being very direct and coming across as rude but will actually be very nice and helpful once you get past that. New Yorkers will call you names that would make a sailor blush, and then immediately rush to help a woman carry her stroller up the subway steps.

jelliclesfarm 3y ago

This is why immigrants jive and fit well with other immigrants. I am in hell right now..dealing with harassment(in the legal sense of the word)from a CA public agency, no less. Everyday I fantasize about quitting something I love because the psychological impact is too much to bear. The only thing that keeps me going is that one day I hope karma will kick in… I have become a lot meaner at heart. I wonder if I will turn into a tyrant if I ever acquire power. In California, the worst racism I have faced is in Berkeley where they wear their progressiveness on the sleeve.

fakedang 3y ago

I'm divided on this. I've found Californians, especially those of the tech type you'd find here in HN, and I've found many to be of exactly that nature. On the other hand, I've been to NY and the Midwest, and they've been extremely polite, in speech and action. It was funny how a policeman in Kenosha is very polite to a non-white me, or how most New Yorkers were extremely helpful, often giving me extras or guiding me throughout the city or what not, in spite of the bad reputations both have seemingly earned online. The truth is that countries, or even cities, are not monolithic entities. It's entirely possible for each place to have two characters. In the same NYC that was largely kind to me, I was also stalked at by some lowlife with presumably evil intentions.

giantg2 3y ago
NYC is not known for polite communication. In fact, they have a reputation for being loud and direct, which often comes across as rude to outsiders. Of course it is not everyone, but it is one of the stereotypes.
- monooso 3y ago
  The PP is aware of this (emphasis mine): > ...in spite of the bad reputations both have seemingly earned online
  - giantg2 3y ago
    That's the thing, it's not just online. IRL there are reputations.
    - fakedang 3y ago
      I meant that as someone exposed to their bad reputations from what other people say online. I know, should've worded it better. NYC folks are portrayed as loudmouths, arrogant and moneyminded, even on TV. But honestly, one can be that, and yet also polite and kind at other times.
- AnimalMuppet 3y ago

soco 3y ago

This is something I noticed as well, and in more general terms, the importance put in the States on the appearances. For example, from what I've read here many US Americans are quick to point out that tipping culture is essential for giving you an always smiling waiter, while for me it's more important to know whether behind that smile there's a big "fuck you". I'd rather have an invisible waiter sticking with doing their job of serving people. Not that I don't like smiles, but I appreciate sincerity more.

ethanbond 3y ago
tipping isn’t important in order to get a smile, it’s important because it’s a critical part of their wage. And yeah, if they do their job decently and you take that away, they’ll be upset (as you would too). It’s a terrible custom in most ways but I don’t think you got a good explanation.
- soco 3y ago
  Their argument was in favor of keeping the tipping culture, as in not paying them the real wage because you'd lOsE ThAt sMiLe (as forced as it might be). Yes, I find this terrible as well.
  - red-iron-pine 3y ago
    who is "their" argument? everyone knows its a ploy to make the servers work harder and obfuscate true costs of the meal.
    - BrandoElFollito 3y ago
      Isn't there a tax incentive for the waiters to get their wage in time rather than salary? After all, waiters could just refuse this system and they would get a normal salary like they do in Europe.
      - ethanbond 3y ago

ajdude 3y ago

From the other side, I'm American who spent time in Europe and I felt similar.I don't want to use the term “uptight” but I can't think of a better word. No, I’m not trying to be disrespectful and I’m doing my best to be respectful. But it was culture shock and I wasn't used to the array of “we don’t do that here” and “you can’t dress like that there” etc. I was kind of on eggshells in many interactions over things that noone would give a second thought to in the US. (For context, I visited The Netherlands, Belgium, and France)

piva00 3y ago
Could you give examples of what kind of behaviours generated a "we don't do that here" or "you can't dress like that there"? Dutch/Belgian and French culture are quite different, even between Dutch and Belgian there are enough differences to create some friction, and I'm asking for examples because I would never expect a "you can't dress like that there" from Dutch people, for example. Uptight, surely, there are plenty of pockets of uptight cultures in Europe, even more in their largest cities. I consider Stockholm uptight as fuck but on the other hand I'd say that Malmö is pretty relaxed. Using Europe as a single, homogeneous thing is the same mistake as calling the USA a homogeneous culture. There are traces of culture in both places that are quite orthogonal across many regions but there's so many regional differences that it becomes irrelevant.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
CalRobert 3y ago
Sounds a bit Doe Normaal. Not the most endearing cultural trait. But then, when we lived in Ireland nobody would _tell_ us that they thought we were freaks for wearing colourful clothes or not caring about church or athletics, they would just insult us behind our backs.

trilbyglens 3y ago

I have to say that this phenomenon seems much more visible and extreme in denser urban areas. I'm an American who has lived in Europe for almost 20 years, and me and my family just completed a 2 week camping trip in rural Colorado and New Mexico and we had a fantastic time. People out in the country and in smaller towns seem to be a lot more friendly and open to getting to know you. I'm not defending the US as I'm often the first to shit on it culturally, but I would definitely suggest getting out if California tbh.

jsbisviewtiful 3y ago

> The passive aggressive behavior seemed quite common. As someone in their 30's struggling to deal with the passive aggressive, unflinchingly uncaring and overall dismissive behaviors of my city's people, I could definitely see this being a trend in my fellow Americans. All lip service and nothing more.