24 ms·

I think that HN itself also shadow flags submissions from a list of domains it doesn't like. Try submitting a URL from the following domains, and it will be au

I think that HN itself also shadow flags submissions from a list of domains it doesn't like. Try submitting a URL from the following domains, and it will be automatically flagged (but you can't see it's flagged unless you log out): - archive.is - watcher.guru - stacker.news - zerohedge.com - freebeacon.com - thefederalist.com - breitbart.com

iguana_lawyer 3y ago
Yeah. HN bans your favorite white supremacist blogs. I don’t see a problem with that.
chasing 3y ago
Good. Hacker News isn't an open-ended political site for people to post weird propaganda.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- mutant_glofish 3y ago
  How's archive.is "weird propaganda"?
  - chasing 3y ago
    Did you read the rest of your own post?
  - dang 3y ago
    It isn't banned in comments - https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=%22archive.is%22&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que..., https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=%22archive.ph%22&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que..., etc. We probably banned it for submissions because we want original sources at the top level.
    - mutant_glofish 3y ago
      And how was the decision made to ban Federalist, but not say Guardian or The Daily Beast? Do you have any process in place to ensure that your political biases don't influence the list, or you don't care about that?
      - cornel_io 3y ago
        I'm guessing it's reactive, and Federalist links tended to be garbage often enough to convince someone they should hit the ban button, whereas the others didn't rise up with trash often enough to matter?
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
      - chasing 3y ago
        [flagged]
        mutant_glofish 3y ago
        > It's under no obligation to be politically balanced. And obviously, I'm under no obligation to not voice my concern about that.
        adamckay 3y ago
        > And obviously, I'm under no obligation to not voice my concern about that. Except... You are... The guidelines [1] of the site outline that most discussion of politics is off-topic as it most often doesn't gratify one's intellectual curiosity. It's rather explicit, too: "Please don't use Hacker News for political or ideological battle.". 1- https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
        jesterson 3y ago
        > no obligation to promote right-wing propaganda and hate Your poor unintentional choice of words (hopefully) makes it sound like left-wing propaganda and hate is something worthy of being promoted. Do hope you don't mean it this way.
dang 3y ago
Well, yes, many sites are banned on HN. Others are penalized (see e.g. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20%22major%20media%22&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...). None of this is secret, though we don't publish the lists themselves. Edit: about 67k sites are banned on HN. Here's a random selection of 10 of them: vodlockertv.com biggboss.org infoocode.com newyorkpersonalinjuryattorneyblog.com moringajuice.wordpress.com surrogacymumbai.com maximizedlivingdrlabrecque.com radio.com gossipcare.com tecteem.com
- mutant_glofish 3y ago
  And you don't see that as censorship?
  - aaomidi 3y ago
    This forum never said they’re a free speech haven.
    - dang 3y ago
      That's true, but it's a bit of an interesting question because "free speech" has different meanings. The thing to understand about HN is that we're trying to optimize for one thing: intellectual curiosity (https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=curiosity%20optimiz%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor...). Given that, we're not "free speech" in the sense of "post anything about anything" - we have to moderate spam, flamewar, lame comments like "ok boomer", etc., because those detract from curious discussion. On the other hand, no single political or ideological position has a monopoly on intellectual curiosity either—so by the same principle, HN can't be moderated for political or ideological position. It's tricky because working this way conflicts with how everyone's mind works. When people see a politically charged post X that they don't like, or when they see a politically charged post Y that they do like, but which we've moderated, it's basically irresistible to jump to the conclusion "the mods are biased". This is because what we see in the first place is conditioned by our preferences - we're more likely to notice and to put weight on things we dislike (https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20notice%20dislike&sort=byDate&type=story&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...). People with opposite preferences notice opposite data points and therefore "see" opposite biases. It's the same mechanism either way. In reality, we're just trying to solve an optimization problem: how can you operate a public internet forum to maximize intellectual curiosity? That's basically it. It's not so easy to solve though.
pavlov 3y ago
The difference is that HN is explicitly heavily moderated while Twitter pretends to be an equitable free speech platform.
- gmerc 3y ago
  Unless you disagree with Elon
  - gmerc 3y ago
    https://www.techdirt.com/2023/08/15/elon-musk-once-again-tries-to-throttle-links-to-sites-he-dislikes/ https://www.techdirt.com/2023/08/15/elon-musk-once-again-tri...
jquery 3y ago
the wise man bowed his head solemnly and spoke: "theres actually zero difference between good & bad things." -- @dril
archo 3y ago
Try submitting a URL from the following domains, and it will be automatically flagged (but you can't see its flagged unless you log out): - archive.is I can assure you that is Not the case with HN: on posting archive.is URL's, proof? Look at my comment postings : https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=archo https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=archo Is it possible you have been shadow-banned for poor compliance to the [1]Guidelines & [2]FAQ's? [1] : https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html [2] : https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html
- mutant_glofish 3y ago
  > I can assure you that is Not the case with HN: on posting archive.is URL's, proof? It's not banned in comments, but it is banned in submissions. @dang (HN's moderator) confirms that here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37130177 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37130177
  - archo 3y ago
    Covered in the Guidelines; >Please submit the original source. If a post reports on something found on another site, submit the latter. And explained on numerous occasions by dang.
- jahsome 3y ago
  The assertion is about submissions, not comments.
- janandonly 3y ago
  I must admit that I've never really delved into the rules on what/how to post on HN. For example, I've linked to my work, but it never occurred to me to use "Show HN". Maybe this is no big deal? Or perhaps for new signups, it would be good to “soft force” them to read the FAQ?
fortran77 3y ago
There are other domains that, while not algorighmically banned, have an army of obsessive people who will flag any story from them if they see it.
janandonly 3y ago
Isn't blocking Stacker.news a petty move? It's basically HN, but you can earn small tips for submissions and comments.
- arijun 3y ago
  It could be because they saw they were getting low quality links from there. In any case, since HN prefers original sources, it’s less likely that a news aggregator would be a good source (the occasional Reddit comment notwithstanding)
  - janandonly 3y ago
    Unless the link is to a "show SN" article, it is indeed simply an aggregator, and not a link to the source. What I mean to say is: I do see the logic of downgrading links to SN, because it is not usually an original source.
- joshstrange 3y ago
  > It's basically HN, but you can earn small tips for submissions and comments. Guesses it's crypto bullshit goes to website Yep, exactly as expected. Karma alone can mess with incentives, I cannot imagine that adding monetary incentive does anything but make it worse. Also crypto has the reverse-midas-touch from everything I've experienced first-hand or read so adding that into the mix is just another black mark.

iguana_lawyer 3y ago

Yeah. HN bans your favorite white supremacist blogs. I don’t see a problem with that.

chasing 3y ago

Good. Hacker News isn't an open-ended political site for people to post weird propaganda.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
mutant_glofish 3y ago
How's archive.is "weird propaganda"?
- chasing 3y ago
  Did you read the rest of your own post?
- dang 3y ago
  It isn't banned in comments - https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=%22archive.is%22&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que..., https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=%22archive.ph%22&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que..., etc. We probably banned it for submissions because we want original sources at the top level.
  - mutant_glofish 3y ago
    And how was the decision made to ban Federalist, but not say Guardian or The Daily Beast? Do you have any process in place to ensure that your political biases don't influence the list, or you don't care about that?
    - cornel_io 3y ago
      I'm guessing it's reactive, and Federalist links tended to be garbage often enough to convince someone they should hit the ban button, whereas the others didn't rise up with trash often enough to matter?
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - chasing 3y ago
      [flagged]
      - mutant_glofish 3y ago
        > It's under no obligation to be politically balanced. And obviously, I'm under no obligation to not voice my concern about that.
        adamckay 3y ago
        > And obviously, I'm under no obligation to not voice my concern about that. Except... You are... The guidelines [1] of the site outline that most discussion of politics is off-topic as it most often doesn't gratify one's intellectual curiosity. It's rather explicit, too: "Please don't use Hacker News for political or ideological battle.". 1- https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
      - jesterson 3y ago
        > no obligation to promote right-wing propaganda and hate Your poor unintentional choice of words (hopefully) makes it sound like left-wing propaganda and hate is something worthy of being promoted. Do hope you don't mean it this way.

dang 3y ago

Well, yes, many sites are banned on HN. Others are penalized (see e.g. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20%22major%20media%22&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...). None of this is secret, though we don't publish the lists themselves. Edit: about 67k sites are banned on HN. Here's a random selection of 10 of them: vodlockertv.com biggboss.org infoocode.com newyorkpersonalinjuryattorneyblog.com moringajuice.wordpress.com surrogacymumbai.com maximizedlivingdrlabrecque.com radio.com gossipcare.com tecteem.com

mutant_glofish 3y ago
And you don't see that as censorship?
- aaomidi 3y ago
  This forum never said they’re a free speech haven.
  - dang 3y ago
    That's true, but it's a bit of an interesting question because "free speech" has different meanings. The thing to understand about HN is that we're trying to optimize for one thing: intellectual curiosity (https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=curiosity%20optimiz%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor...). Given that, we're not "free speech" in the sense of "post anything about anything" - we have to moderate spam, flamewar, lame comments like "ok boomer", etc., because those detract from curious discussion. On the other hand, no single political or ideological position has a monopoly on intellectual curiosity either—so by the same principle, HN can't be moderated for political or ideological position. It's tricky because working this way conflicts with how everyone's mind works. When people see a politically charged post X that they don't like, or when they see a politically charged post Y that they do like, but which we've moderated, it's basically irresistible to jump to the conclusion "the mods are biased". This is because what we see in the first place is conditioned by our preferences - we're more likely to notice and to put weight on things we dislike (https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20notice%20dislike&sort=byDate&type=story&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...). People with opposite preferences notice opposite data points and therefore "see" opposite biases. It's the same mechanism either way. In reality, we're just trying to solve an optimization problem: how can you operate a public internet forum to maximize intellectual curiosity? That's basically it. It's not so easy to solve though.

pavlov 3y ago

The difference is that HN is explicitly heavily moderated while Twitter pretends to be an equitable free speech platform.

gmerc 3y ago
Unless you disagree with Elon
- gmerc 3y ago
  https://www.techdirt.com/2023/08/15/elon-musk-once-again-tries-to-throttle-links-to-sites-he-dislikes/ https://www.techdirt.com/2023/08/15/elon-musk-once-again-tri...

jquery 3y ago

the wise man bowed his head solemnly and spoke: "theres actually zero difference between good & bad things." -- @dril

archo 3y ago

Try submitting a URL from the following domains, and it will be automatically flagged (but you can't see its flagged unless you log out): - archive.is I can assure you that is Not the case with HN: on posting archive.is URL's, proof? Look at my comment postings : https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=archo https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=archo Is it possible you have been shadow-banned for poor compliance to the [1]Guidelines & [2]FAQ's? [1] : https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html [2] : https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html

mutant_glofish 3y ago
> I can assure you that is Not the case with HN: on posting archive.is URL's, proof? It's not banned in comments, but it is banned in submissions. @dang (HN's moderator) confirms that here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37130177 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37130177
- archo 3y ago
  Covered in the Guidelines; >Please submit the original source. If a post reports on something found on another site, submit the latter. And explained on numerous occasions by dang.
jahsome 3y ago
The assertion is about submissions, not comments.
janandonly 3y ago
I must admit that I've never really delved into the rules on what/how to post on HN. For example, I've linked to my work, but it never occurred to me to use "Show HN". Maybe this is no big deal? Or perhaps for new signups, it would be good to “soft force” them to read the FAQ?

fortran77 3y ago

There are other domains that, while not algorighmically banned, have an army of obsessive people who will flag any story from them if they see it.

janandonly 3y ago

Isn't blocking Stacker.news a petty move? It's basically HN, but you can earn small tips for submissions and comments.

arijun 3y ago
It could be because they saw they were getting low quality links from there. In any case, since HN prefers original sources, it’s less likely that a news aggregator would be a good source (the occasional Reddit comment notwithstanding)
- janandonly 3y ago
  Unless the link is to a "show SN" article, it is indeed simply an aggregator, and not a link to the source. What I mean to say is: I do see the logic of downgrading links to SN, because it is not usually an original source.
joshstrange 3y ago
> It's basically HN, but you can earn small tips for submissions and comments. Guesses it's crypto bullshit goes to website Yep, exactly as expected. Karma alone can mess with incentives, I cannot imagine that adding monetary incentive does anything but make it worse. Also crypto has the reverse-midas-touch from everything I've experienced first-hand or read so adding that into the mix is just another black mark.