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There's a common belief that education is being underfunded in the United States, that the problem with schools is that they lack the budget to improve their le

There's a common belief that education is being underfunded in the United States, that the problem with schools is that they lack the budget to improve their learning outcomes. Statistically speaking, total spending on education had increased year on year, accounting for inflation, per student, since the 1970s. Conversely, test scores have remained relatively stagnant (see https://slatestarcodex.com/2017/02/09/considerations-on-cost-disease/)This https://slatestarcodex.com/2017/02/09/considerations-on-cost... points to the problem lying elsewhere.

sohex 3y ago
Is total spending per student really sufficient as a means of tracking whether enough is being spent though? I'd imagine that the costs per student have risen a greater rate since the 70s than spending has. Between things like needing to pay for computers and IT infrastructure, accommodation programs for those with special needs, and so on it seems to me that it's actually remarkable in someways that test scores have even managed stagnancy rather than a decline.
- WalterBright 3y ago
  Computers are not necessary for K-12 education. They're more likely a hindrance.
  - mlyle 3y ago
    Students getting experience doing computer things is nice. And there's things that are awesome to demonstrate with simulations. Spending a huge fraction of your educational day on them is dumb and ripe for abuse. This is a potential silver lining of the whole LLM thing: computers being used for writing assignments, etc, may become untenable.
    - vxNsr 3y ago
      I had a teacher 15 years ago who didn’t trust us not to have family members edit our work to the point where it was no longer our work so he only gave in class writing assignments. Homework was always research or reading.
  - sohex 3y ago
    Whether or not they're effective educational tools the fact is that they are used as such in most school districts (in the US) these days so far as I'm aware. Personally I agree for the most part, in general classroom instruction doesn't need them. That being said they're certainly indispensable for things like research in school libraries, running simulations for science classes, creating digital, and obviously teaching any kind of programming, so they definitely have their place. Having a dedicated computer per student is a huge benefit for less well off communities too. More than a few students won't have one of their own or even a family computer at home and having the school provide that for assignments is absolutely a boon so far as I'm concerned.
- vxNsr 3y ago
  I’ve yet to see any real correlation between increasing technology in the classroom and increasing learning. In general technology in the classroom is a hindrance to real education. It turns out most people learn better writing by hand and interacting in person vs staring at a screen.
AlbertCory 3y ago
Cost per student is the wrong metric, since the numerator includes all the hundreds of assistant deans, other administrators, and other non-educational costs. "Instructor salaries, fully loaded, and other direct costs" would be a better choice.

sohex 3y ago

Is total spending per student really sufficient as a means of tracking whether enough is being spent though? I'd imagine that the costs per student have risen a greater rate since the 70s than spending has. Between things like needing to pay for computers and IT infrastructure, accommodation programs for those with special needs, and so on it seems to me that it's actually remarkable in someways that test scores have even managed stagnancy rather than a decline.

WalterBright 3y ago
Computers are not necessary for K-12 education. They're more likely a hindrance.
- mlyle 3y ago
  Students getting experience doing computer things is nice. And there's things that are awesome to demonstrate with simulations. Spending a huge fraction of your educational day on them is dumb and ripe for abuse. This is a potential silver lining of the whole LLM thing: computers being used for writing assignments, etc, may become untenable.
  - vxNsr 3y ago
    I had a teacher 15 years ago who didn’t trust us not to have family members edit our work to the point where it was no longer our work so he only gave in class writing assignments. Homework was always research or reading.
- sohex 3y ago
  Whether or not they're effective educational tools the fact is that they are used as such in most school districts (in the US) these days so far as I'm aware. Personally I agree for the most part, in general classroom instruction doesn't need them. That being said they're certainly indispensable for things like research in school libraries, running simulations for science classes, creating digital, and obviously teaching any kind of programming, so they definitely have their place. Having a dedicated computer per student is a huge benefit for less well off communities too. More than a few students won't have one of their own or even a family computer at home and having the school provide that for assignments is absolutely a boon so far as I'm concerned.
vxNsr 3y ago
I’ve yet to see any real correlation between increasing technology in the classroom and increasing learning. In general technology in the classroom is a hindrance to real education. It turns out most people learn better writing by hand and interacting in person vs staring at a screen.

AlbertCory 3y ago

Cost per student is the wrong metric, since the numerator includes all the hundreds of assistant deans, other administrators, and other non-educational costs. "Instructor salaries, fully loaded, and other direct costs" would be a better choice.