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As it turns out, middle and working class people finally figured out it isn’t worth paying $100k for book club. One of the mistaken beliefs of many Americans is

As it turns out, middle and working class people finally figured out it isn’t worth paying $100k for book club. One of the mistaken beliefs of many Americans is that class isn’t a big thing here. And with this mistaken belief, millions have bought the lie that they too could do book club or art club and the associated lifestyle of young adult daycare and actually end up in a better place. Naive parents stood in front of the “Mission Accomplished” banner teary eyed as their youngster went away to some school far from home that guaranteed a better life for them. If only they’d go into crippling debt. Happy to see this correction but sad it took so many ruined lives to get there. If you’re middle class or less and not exceptionally academically able then the only acceptable outcome is you exit an affordable college with a useful degree. The other crap is for rich kids that can study botany and end up at their dads hedge fund one day. No one is funding your “finding yourself”or w/e. Don’t be a sucker.

kstrauser 3y ago
> If you’re middle class or less and not exceptionally academically able then the only acceptable outcome is you exit an affordable college with a useful degree. The other crap is for rich kids that can study botany You roll your eyes at kids in “book clubs”, then use a freaking STEM program as your example. Botanists, the people studying plants so they can make healthier crops among other things, are your example of bad educational investments? I don’t think you understand the whole university system as well as you think you do.
- nemo44x 3y ago
  I think you missed the entire point. Botany is great and important for some exceptionally talented person. The kind of kid that gets scholarship to a top university because they’re super smart and conscientious. These people will make a difference. It’s pointless for a middle class kid of average or even slightly above average ability with nothing to fall back on. These people need to make a living. Once you’re earning a living then there’s nothing stopping you from exploring botany. The internet is full of resources. Your local college will probably let you sit in for free. Do that.
  - kstrauser 3y ago
    You have a poor grasp on what a botanist is, why we need them, and how a kid might end up on that track. Your claim is directly analogous to “study physics on your own once you have a real job”. The notion that only the wealthy should be able to pursue critical fields is dystopian as hell. I’m not a botanist. I don’t even know that I know any. I bought a cartful of their research at the supermarket today, though.
    - nemo44x 3y ago
      Unless you’re exceptional. You keep leaving that part out. There’s a parallel gradient of ability and practicality. Has to do more with ability than wealth - although wealth lets you do w/e because you’re rich. There’s reality and there’s how it “ought to be”. You’re stuck on that. Dystopian is millions of people with massive debt and unable to act on what they paid for it.
      - OkayPhysicist 3y ago
        You're the one pitching an "ought to be". Your pitch is "Poor people ought not to aspire to roles above their station". That sounds pretty dystopian to me.
        nemo44x 3y ago
        No that’s not ought - it’s how it is. It’s reality. Not how reality ought to be. It’s not dystopian to say you need practical skills that are useful. Once you’ve established that then go learn whatever you want.

kstrauser 3y ago

> If you’re middle class or less and not exceptionally academically able then the only acceptable outcome is you exit an affordable college with a useful degree. The other crap is for rich kids that can study botany You roll your eyes at kids in “book clubs”, then use a freaking STEM program as your example. Botanists, the people studying plants so they can make healthier crops among other things, are your example of bad educational investments? I don’t think you understand the whole university system as well as you think you do.

nemo44x 3y ago
I think you missed the entire point. Botany is great and important for some exceptionally talented person. The kind of kid that gets scholarship to a top university because they’re super smart and conscientious. These people will make a difference. It’s pointless for a middle class kid of average or even slightly above average ability with nothing to fall back on. These people need to make a living. Once you’re earning a living then there’s nothing stopping you from exploring botany. The internet is full of resources. Your local college will probably let you sit in for free. Do that.
- kstrauser 3y ago
  You have a poor grasp on what a botanist is, why we need them, and how a kid might end up on that track. Your claim is directly analogous to “study physics on your own once you have a real job”. The notion that only the wealthy should be able to pursue critical fields is dystopian as hell. I’m not a botanist. I don’t even know that I know any. I bought a cartful of their research at the supermarket today, though.
  - nemo44x 3y ago
    Unless you’re exceptional. You keep leaving that part out. There’s a parallel gradient of ability and practicality. Has to do more with ability than wealth - although wealth lets you do w/e because you’re rich. There’s reality and there’s how it “ought to be”. You’re stuck on that. Dystopian is millions of people with massive debt and unable to act on what they paid for it.
    - OkayPhysicist 3y ago
      You're the one pitching an "ought to be". Your pitch is "Poor people ought not to aspire to roles above their station". That sounds pretty dystopian to me.
      - nemo44x 3y ago
        No that’s not ought - it’s how it is. It’s reality. Not how reality ought to be. It’s not dystopian to say you need practical skills that are useful. Once you’ve established that then go learn whatever you want.