6 ms·

So basically one person, usually the woman, gets to not have a personal life.

wernercd 3y ago
Why not? It's worked throughout history. Men and women working together to make the world a better place.
everdrive 3y ago
My wife is a homemaker (and soon to be mother) -- and trust me, she's got a much bigger personal life than I do. I'm not nearly as good at socializing as she is, and it shows. A job is definitely not required for a personal life.
- oh_sigh 3y ago
  I agree it isn't required, but providing full-time child care prevents you from doing a lot of things. If you consider "personal life" to be "socializing with other moms", then yes you can have a personal life. But that is not everyone's dream of a personal life.
  - NoZebra120vClip 3y ago
    Try looking up "homeschool field trips"
anon291 3y ago
Oh man... my wife and her friends see each other practically every day with the kids. They practically live together half the time. Whereas I see my friends (her friend's husbands usually) like once a week / maybe twice if i'm lucky. I have no idea where this idea has come from that stay at home moms are stuck at home. Most of the time they are out chatting, eating lunch at each other's houses, or doing something fun together
- xwdv 3y ago
  It’s because people at work typically aren’t out and about during the day seeing moms going out and socializing with other moms. They’re stuck at work. These moms live rich fulfilling lives.
- oh_sigh 3y ago
  I see "personal life" as much larger than "childcare with friends". Can your wife go mountain biking? Can she attend a lecture that coincides with nap time? Can she delve into a tough book?
  - zdragnar 3y ago
    Friends and family can help watch the kids- taking a bit of personal time is important too. Those things are all easier to do as a stay at home parent than if both parents are working, because then you end up dedicating all of your non-work hours to family, chores and errands anyway.
  - sudobash1 3y ago
    > Can your wife go mountain biking? This seems a silly question. During the workday, neither spouse can go mountain biking. Outside of the workday both spouses can go mountain biking. This is true whether one or both spouses are wage-earners.
    - DoreenMichele 3y ago
      Humorously, cycling with a child safety seat was absolutely something I did on a mountain bike while I was a full-time mom with small kids. I did it until I was like 8 months pregnant with my second child and my belly was too big for me to get on a mountain bike with child seat attached.
    - anon291 3y ago
      On the weekends, yes. My wife and I went skiing almost every weekend. Sometimes we take our daughters. Sometimes other family watched the kids. It's not a fair comparison, because I never go skiing during work. Although, my wife has discussed going skiing / camping with some of the moms during the weekdays when the kids are a bit older. So that's another win for moms I guess.
itake 3y ago
My sister (a new mom) is loving the community Mom's groups bring to her life. She admitted to me that if it wasn't for the FANGA money, she prefers to be a stay-at-home mom.
- googlryas 3y ago
  Might be true, but it is also an easy thing to say when it is still new
VoodooJuJu 3y ago
I know that corporate-sponsored media would have you believe your work acquaintances are your family and your one true source of friends, but it's just not the case, and if you drink that kool-aid, ultimately it's you and your children who lose.
- googlryas 3y ago
  No, it's just that child care doesn't turn off at a set time like most jobs do. Your schedule might be 6am-8pm, with multiple periods in the early morning while you're up. I say this as a person who has been both a full time programmer and a full time care giver. Being the care giver was far more frazzling and non stop compared to my job. I found it far easier to pursue personal interests when I was working full-time compared to parenting full-time. Pretty much my only time without a kid in my life would be late at night, and even then you need to stay in the house to watch them, and you may be too tired and sleep deprived to actually be able to pursue an interest if it is pursuable in your own home.
  - anon291 3y ago
    As a father who works and husband to a stay at home wife, my work also never stops. After I do my full work day, I come home and... take care of the kids.
gedy 3y ago
No, I think it's us folks farting in office chairs with headphones on that don't have a personal life.
dudul 3y ago
My wife is a mom full time by choice - and because we can afford ot. She goes to play dates, she gives yoga lessons, is part of a bookclub, etc. Tired of the old "no life for the caregiver" trope. If I had a choice, between slaving away to enrich y rich CEO or take care of my kids my choice would be easy.
DoreenMichele 3y ago
I'm a former homemaker. What the woman gets is nothing but a personal life. It's not necessarily a problem if she has married well, they plan well for her financial comfort after he is gone and they remain together "until death do us part." It's primarily a problem if they divorce and now she needs to somehow launch a career from scratch. Those years spent raising kids don't tend to readily translate to a good resume and high salary.
- oh_sigh 3y ago
  There are a whole slew of activities that you cannot do if you're providing full-time childcare, especially for, say, under 5 year olds who aren't in school yet.
  - DoreenMichele 3y ago
    You can say the same thing about working full-time at any job. But you want to list a few for me so we can actually discuss this instead of you just dismissing my opinion as if 'nuh-uh' is a meaningful rebuttal?
    - googlryas 3y ago
      Well, I've done both, and I've found parenting harder. I guess that's just my take. Were you raising children or just "homemaking", which doesn't necessarily imply childcare? You really can't think of any activities/interest people pursue that you can't do while toting a 2 year old with you? That's something I didn't think would require enumerating.
      - DoreenMichele 3y ago
        https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37128205 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37128205
        googlryas 3y ago
        Well, that seems extremely reckless, but good job on not crashing and severely injuring your children I guess. Maybe we're thinking of different types of mountain biking. And this is also a reason why listing specifics is a fools errand(which makes me a fool), because in the multitude there will always be someone who said "actually I did that and everything turned out fine". I smoked crack while pregnant, and my kid went to Harvard. See, no issues there.
asow92 3y ago
This just isn't true, that is unless, you've been tricked into tying up your personal identity with your job? When my wife and I had our son everything became clear and we realized that success at work was just a means to an end.
- oh_sigh 3y ago
  Nope, just the opposite. I don't like the concept of making work friends and keep a strict separation between the two. I was talking about the ability for the "primary caretaker" to pursue their own interests, many of which are precluded by the act of fulltime childcare
  - asow92 3y ago
    Do you have a kid?
    - googlryas 3y ago
      Posting on another account because I'm rate limited. Sorry dang. Yes, actually, a 3 year old and a 1 year old.
      - asow92 3y ago
        I guess I'm confused about what you're after here. Are you suggesting that the primary caregiver should be able to lean more on an increased amount subsidized daycare in order to pursue a personal life by working instead of staying home with the kid full-time? You still have your kids after daycare is over, so it's not like you can get out of that part of caretaking to pursue "personal interests" fully. What about parenting in such a way that you involve your kids in your personal interests? You can definitely dig into tough book or go mountain biking with your kids with enough patients and proper equipment.
  - sudobash1 3y ago
    Unless one is pursuing one's own interests on company time, I don't see how being the parent with a career makes it any easier to pursue personal interests.

Why not? It's worked throughout history. Men and women working together to make the world a better place.

My wife is a homemaker (and soon to be mother) -- and trust me, she's got a much bigger personal life than I do. I'm not nearly as good at socializing as she is, and it shows. A job is definitely not required for a personal life.

oh_sigh 3y ago
I agree it isn't required, but providing full-time child care prevents you from doing a lot of things. If you consider "personal life" to be "socializing with other moms", then yes you can have a personal life. But that is not everyone's dream of a personal life.
- NoZebra120vClip 3y ago
  Try looking up "homeschool field trips"

anon291 3y ago

Oh man... my wife and her friends see each other practically every day with the kids. They practically live together half the time. Whereas I see my friends (her friend's husbands usually) like once a week / maybe twice if i'm lucky. I have no idea where this idea has come from that stay at home moms are stuck at home. Most of the time they are out chatting, eating lunch at each other's houses, or doing something fun together

xwdv 3y ago
It’s because people at work typically aren’t out and about during the day seeing moms going out and socializing with other moms. They’re stuck at work. These moms live rich fulfilling lives.
oh_sigh 3y ago
I see "personal life" as much larger than "childcare with friends". Can your wife go mountain biking? Can she attend a lecture that coincides with nap time? Can she delve into a tough book?
- zdragnar 3y ago
  Friends and family can help watch the kids- taking a bit of personal time is important too. Those things are all easier to do as a stay at home parent than if both parents are working, because then you end up dedicating all of your non-work hours to family, chores and errands anyway.
- sudobash1 3y ago
  > Can your wife go mountain biking? This seems a silly question. During the workday, neither spouse can go mountain biking. Outside of the workday both spouses can go mountain biking. This is true whether one or both spouses are wage-earners.
  - DoreenMichele 3y ago
    Humorously, cycling with a child safety seat was absolutely something I did on a mountain bike while I was a full-time mom with small kids. I did it until I was like 8 months pregnant with my second child and my belly was too big for me to get on a mountain bike with child seat attached.
  - anon291 3y ago
    On the weekends, yes. My wife and I went skiing almost every weekend. Sometimes we take our daughters. Sometimes other family watched the kids. It's not a fair comparison, because I never go skiing during work. Although, my wife has discussed going skiing / camping with some of the moms during the weekdays when the kids are a bit older. So that's another win for moms I guess.

itake 3y ago

My sister (a new mom) is loving the community Mom's groups bring to her life. She admitted to me that if it wasn't for the FANGA money, she prefers to be a stay-at-home mom.

googlryas 3y ago
Might be true, but it is also an easy thing to say when it is still new

VoodooJuJu 3y ago

I know that corporate-sponsored media would have you believe your work acquaintances are your family and your one true source of friends, but it's just not the case, and if you drink that kool-aid, ultimately it's you and your children who lose.

googlryas 3y ago
No, it's just that child care doesn't turn off at a set time like most jobs do. Your schedule might be 6am-8pm, with multiple periods in the early morning while you're up. I say this as a person who has been both a full time programmer and a full time care giver. Being the care giver was far more frazzling and non stop compared to my job. I found it far easier to pursue personal interests when I was working full-time compared to parenting full-time. Pretty much my only time without a kid in my life would be late at night, and even then you need to stay in the house to watch them, and you may be too tired and sleep deprived to actually be able to pursue an interest if it is pursuable in your own home.
- anon291 3y ago
  As a father who works and husband to a stay at home wife, my work also never stops. After I do my full work day, I come home and... take care of the kids.

gedy 3y ago

No, I think it's us folks farting in office chairs with headphones on that don't have a personal life.

dudul 3y ago

My wife is a mom full time by choice - and because we can afford ot. She goes to play dates, she gives yoga lessons, is part of a bookclub, etc. Tired of the old "no life for the caregiver" trope. If I had a choice, between slaving away to enrich y rich CEO or take care of my kids my choice would be easy.

DoreenMichele 3y ago

I'm a former homemaker. What the woman gets is nothing but a personal life. It's not necessarily a problem if she has married well, they plan well for her financial comfort after he is gone and they remain together "until death do us part." It's primarily a problem if they divorce and now she needs to somehow launch a career from scratch. Those years spent raising kids don't tend to readily translate to a good resume and high salary.

oh_sigh 3y ago
There are a whole slew of activities that you cannot do if you're providing full-time childcare, especially for, say, under 5 year olds who aren't in school yet.
- DoreenMichele 3y ago
  You can say the same thing about working full-time at any job. But you want to list a few for me so we can actually discuss this instead of you just dismissing my opinion as if 'nuh-uh' is a meaningful rebuttal?
  - googlryas 3y ago
    Well, I've done both, and I've found parenting harder. I guess that's just my take. Were you raising children or just "homemaking", which doesn't necessarily imply childcare? You really can't think of any activities/interest people pursue that you can't do while toting a 2 year old with you? That's something I didn't think would require enumerating.
    - DoreenMichele 3y ago
      https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37128205 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37128205
      - googlryas 3y ago
        Well, that seems extremely reckless, but good job on not crashing and severely injuring your children I guess. Maybe we're thinking of different types of mountain biking. And this is also a reason why listing specifics is a fools errand(which makes me a fool), because in the multitude there will always be someone who said "actually I did that and everything turned out fine". I smoked crack while pregnant, and my kid went to Harvard. See, no issues there.

asow92 3y ago

This just isn't true, that is unless, you've been tricked into tying up your personal identity with your job? When my wife and I had our son everything became clear and we realized that success at work was just a means to an end.

oh_sigh 3y ago
Nope, just the opposite. I don't like the concept of making work friends and keep a strict separation between the two. I was talking about the ability for the "primary caretaker" to pursue their own interests, many of which are precluded by the act of fulltime childcare
- asow92 3y ago
  Do you have a kid?
  - googlryas 3y ago
    Posting on another account because I'm rate limited. Sorry dang. Yes, actually, a 3 year old and a 1 year old.
    - asow92 3y ago
      I guess I'm confused about what you're after here. Are you suggesting that the primary caregiver should be able to lean more on an increased amount subsidized daycare in order to pursue a personal life by working instead of staying home with the kid full-time? You still have your kids after daycare is over, so it's not like you can get out of that part of caretaking to pursue "personal interests" fully. What about parenting in such a way that you involve your kids in your personal interests? You can definitely dig into tough book or go mountain biking with your kids with enough patients and proper equipment.
- sudobash1 3y ago
  Unless one is pursuing one's own interests on company time, I don't see how being the parent with a career makes it any easier to pursue personal interests.