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Experimentally one never observes waves. Light is detected based on its interaction with electrons and that is always by an electron absorbing a quanta of energ

by _0w8t 3y ago

Experimentally one never observes waves. Light is detected based on its interaction with electrons and that is always by an electron absorbing a quanta of energy, not via some continuous process as would be the case with waves. Classically one can imagine that as if electron was hit by a particle. But then we have light diffraction and interference, which classically is described as a wave. So from a classical point of view light travels as a wave but interact as a particle. As of nature of the light, then consider that there is a reformulation of a classical electrodynamics that eliminates electromagnetic waves all together. There are only electrons that interacts with each other directly with no waves in between. Feynman spent quite some time trying to develop quantum electrodynamic based on that. He failed. Still the point stands that we never observe light directly but only through its effects on electrons and other charged particles. So it could be that what we call light is a theoretical artifact and there is no light in reality.

consilient 3y ago
> So from a classical point of view light travels as a wave but interact as a particle. And the classical point of view is wrong. Photons resemble classical particles in a few respects, and classical waves in a few others, but at the end of the day they're neither. > Still the point stands that we never observe light directly but only through its effects on electrons and other charged particles. This is true of literally everything. "Direct" observation does not exist. Every atom, every cell, every person, every planet, every star - you know them by their effect on your sense-data, or else not at all.
- blueprint 3y ago
  photons dont exist, dude, except in connection with and at the site of the detector. study some qft and then you can go talk about it on the internet with authority. and yes direct observation exists. that's what measurement is. and that's all you can ever "observe" unless you incorporate the wavefunction, which also doesn't "exist".
  - jpk 3y ago
    This comment is needlessly hostile. It's ok to correct someone if you think they're wrong, but this tone isn't conducive to curious conversation.
    - blueprint 3y ago
      so it's the tone of my textual words? i think you're mistaking my laughter at their blatant and willful ignorance for hostility, and quite honestly it sounds like you're projecting that hostility. from the start I've been incorrectly downvoted and critiqued while being the primary commenter in this child thread providing a semblance of correct view. to be quite frank i deserve an apology, not some nitpick that comes from your personal assumption about my tone. but i know i won't get one because it's not hostility you care about at all. a lot of you commenters here are pretty hilarious. but not in a good way.
      - d1sxeyes 3y ago
        At this point anyone who is as certain about the nature of light as you seem to be may well be right, but is demonstrating a level of confidence the literature does not yet seem to support. Although there are those who believe that photons only exist at source and at the detector, there is some experimental evidence which contradicts that (for example, this 2013 paper in which researchers 'read' information from a photon without destroying it, which implies its continued existence between creation and observation: https://doi.org/10.1126/science.1246164 https://doi.org/10.1126/science.1246164). For what it's worth, I am also of the opinion that your tone was hostile, and yes, 'textual words' can and do have a (metaphorical) tone. Regarding downvoting and critiquing, there's an old adage about if you walk into a room and it smells of dog shit, maybe someone in the room stepped in something on the way in, but if every room you walk into all day stinks, well maybe you should check your own shoes.
        blueprint 3y ago
        so, you're trying to tell me that such reasoning about "dog shit" applies to the ignorance of humanity in general? The reality is the very few people actually understood what they were talking about and a lot of people went around operating on what they didn't really know. So while you call me an asshole for correcting a number of incorrect people in this thread who are themselves rather overconfident, I have to again insist that because I am correcting them or destroying their delusions does not make me hostile and there's a very good chance that you're projecting that impression. The definition of hostility includes the intent to do harm or to be unfriendly, which is in fact what the people I am replying to are doing by spreading misinformation, as if they know. If that's too difficult for you to accept, then best that you do not reply to me, because it would be a waste in both of our time. "falsehood travels a great distance in one night before the truth even crosses the threshold of the door". And the masses sentences Socrates to death just because he called them hypocrites. It's a good thing I know these truths or I would have been damaged by you. It still makes me sad though. and for what it's worth I don't believe the paper you linked says what you think it says.

by _0w8t 3y ago

consilient 3y ago

> So from a classical point of view light travels as a wave but interact as a particle. And the classical point of view is wrong. Photons resemble classical particles in a few respects, and classical waves in a few others, but at the end of the day they're neither. > Still the point stands that we never observe light directly but only through its effects on electrons and other charged particles. This is true of literally everything. "Direct" observation does not exist. Every atom, every cell, every person, every planet, every star - you know them by their effect on your sense-data, or else not at all.

blueprint 3y ago
photons dont exist, dude, except in connection with and at the site of the detector. study some qft and then you can go talk about it on the internet with authority. and yes direct observation exists. that's what measurement is. and that's all you can ever "observe" unless you incorporate the wavefunction, which also doesn't "exist".
- jpk 3y ago
  This comment is needlessly hostile. It's ok to correct someone if you think they're wrong, but this tone isn't conducive to curious conversation.
  - blueprint 3y ago
    so it's the tone of my textual words? i think you're mistaking my laughter at their blatant and willful ignorance for hostility, and quite honestly it sounds like you're projecting that hostility. from the start I've been incorrectly downvoted and critiqued while being the primary commenter in this child thread providing a semblance of correct view. to be quite frank i deserve an apology, not some nitpick that comes from your personal assumption about my tone. but i know i won't get one because it's not hostility you care about at all. a lot of you commenters here are pretty hilarious. but not in a good way.
    - d1sxeyes 3y ago
      At this point anyone who is as certain about the nature of light as you seem to be may well be right, but is demonstrating a level of confidence the literature does not yet seem to support. Although there are those who believe that photons only exist at source and at the detector, there is some experimental evidence which contradicts that (for example, this 2013 paper in which researchers 'read' information from a photon without destroying it, which implies its continued existence between creation and observation: https://doi.org/10.1126/science.1246164 https://doi.org/10.1126/science.1246164). For what it's worth, I am also of the opinion that your tone was hostile, and yes, 'textual words' can and do have a (metaphorical) tone. Regarding downvoting and critiquing, there's an old adage about if you walk into a room and it smells of dog shit, maybe someone in the room stepped in something on the way in, but if every room you walk into all day stinks, well maybe you should check your own shoes.
      - blueprint 3y ago
        so, you're trying to tell me that such reasoning about "dog shit" applies to the ignorance of humanity in general? The reality is the very few people actually understood what they were talking about and a lot of people went around operating on what they didn't really know. So while you call me an asshole for correcting a number of incorrect people in this thread who are themselves rather overconfident, I have to again insist that because I am correcting them or destroying their delusions does not make me hostile and there's a very good chance that you're projecting that impression. The definition of hostility includes the intent to do harm or to be unfriendly, which is in fact what the people I am replying to are doing by spreading misinformation, as if they know. If that's too difficult for you to accept, then best that you do not reply to me, because it would be a waste in both of our time. "falsehood travels a great distance in one night before the truth even crosses the threshold of the door". And the masses sentences Socrates to death just because he called them hypocrites. It's a good thing I know these truths or I would have been damaged by you. It still makes me sad though. and for what it's worth I don't believe the paper you linked says what you think it says.