5 ms·

My country is not a US "ally", so what I say may not apply to every one. One thing we get used to is the "step aside" treatment. When a border agent sees my Le

My country is not a US "ally", so what I say may not apply to every one. One thing we get used to is the "step aside" treatment. When a border agent sees my Lebanese passport with "arabic gibberish" they usually react the same way. There's a little hesitation, (one time the agent even called her supervisor), then I'm asked to "step aside", go to a special lane, get a full body search from an extremely cold person following protocole to the letter. They will go through all my stuff, literally everything and after making sure I'm "clean" they let me go. I don't complain much though, it's just a funny ritual. And more often than none, the "step aside" lane is far less crowded than the regular one, which means that despite the intensive search, it's still takes me less time. On the other hand, one of my closest friends studying at Purdue University had a mandatory two hour stop in an interrogation room, every time he passezd by the airport of Chicago, because he has the mention "born in Beirut" on his French passport. "Randomly selected" they said...

sneak 15y ago
I carry a US passport from being a US citizen, and I get similar treatment every time I enter the country, due to refusing to answer their voluntary questions about what I do for a living, where I'm going inside the USA, what I do in the country in which I live (Germany), etc. They have to let me in and they know it, so they exercise their power by detaining me for 2-8 hours and going through all of my stuff. It's always a real half-assed search, too. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc
- billforsternz 15y ago
  Wouldn't it be easier to answer the questions in a friendly manner ?
  - bumbledraven 15y ago
    Wouldn't it have been easier for Rosa Parks to just go to the back of the bus?
  - sneak 15y ago
    Not really. One is on video (and presumably audio) from a bunch of different angles, and even a tiny accidental mis-statement or contradiction is grounds for them to arrest you. Watch the linked video. It's a VOLUNTARY interaction. The only legally prudent thing to do is to STFU.
davidw 15y ago
Well it sounds like a success though - you didn't manage to blow anyone up, did you? :-) FWIW, I'm not wild about these "righteous indignation" articles on HN. This is one of the better ones I've seen, and I agree with it wholeheartedly, but... I feel that perhaps they're just better left to other sites.
- cgoddard 15y ago
  This article feels completely fitting with the hacker mindset. It's about people having a bad user experience. Trying to fix inconveniences and unpleasant experiences seems right along the same lines as the hacker ethic and entrepreneurial spirit to me. I'm sorry if you disagree.
  - DanBC 15y ago
    True. There's also interesting discussion to be had about "hacking large bureaucratic systems - building in incentives for polite but effective behaviours or traffic flow analysis or what not.
  - davidw 15y ago
    You're playing 6 degrees of hacker news: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=242484 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=242484 The problem is that these kind of articles breed - first it's this, then it's some other thing, then it's Mitt Romney, then it's Ron Paul, and in the end you're saddled with a lot of politics. And none of it is "intellectually stimulating". When I read the article, it just makes me irritated about the US policies and practices in place, but it's all information I already knew. Also, to me, the "hacker mindset" works a lot better for things you can just go fix, or avoid altogether. Fixing a large, messy, political problem in a large country is anything but that.
    - tripzilch 15y ago
      Yeah, politics, that must be it ... if everybody in your country would've just voted for the other guy the problem would've solved itself by now, wouldn't it? You sound exactly like one of those higher educated Chinese college kids arguing that whole censorship thing really isn't as bad as they make it sound ... Or, rather someone defending their abusive husband. "It's just a lot of poltics" == "Sometimes, he's just had a really rough day at work, you know?"
kamjam 15y ago
It's a well written article, good to see on a site like nytimes. I have to also agree with your statement. I have been to the states 3 times, first in 2006 where I flew into JFK and was "randomly selected" (woooo, I won!) and then detained for additional questionning for 5 hours. What did they ask me? Name, DoB, place of birth (all info IN MY PASSPORT ALREADY!), fathers/mothers name, address, what job I did, where I was staying. I have no problems them asking me, but it's the way they treat you. I got put in a waiting room, told to sit down and answer these question in an "application" form. Having filled this in they just told me to sit down. When I got up to ask what was taking so long, "Sir, would you please sit unless you are called". As if the sir makes it polite. Eventually they stamped my passport and I was through. Flash forward to July 2010, first stop Atlanta. Same deal. I'l also been backpacking for 6 months. That raised an eyebrow when he looked through all the stamps. I hadn't gone to any of those "terrorist" countries though. I was born in Bangladesh and have in the UK since I was a year old. I did get asked though - Did you have any military training before you left? - Have you been to country X, Y, Z - Why did you go to X, Y, Z. Do you not have a job? How did you get time off? - I even got asked why I left Bangladesh. Really?!? I was a year old mate, didn't really have a say in the matter! The last time I went was December 2011. That time was a breeze. Flew into Newark, I was already on the system now (I had a change of passport between first 2 visits). I STILL however got briefly questioned in the queue to the counter, I have no idea why, but colour of skin is the only thing... My brother went to Peru a few years back, he a his girlfriend had a stopover in Miami for a couple hours. Note they were not "entering" America, this was a compulsory refuel stop I guess. He gets hauled in, his girlfriend is sitting outside WTF is going on. He misses his flight due to the delay, they barely get him on the next flight but now his girlfriend has no fight since she was not hauled in. The airline to their credit were good, swapped their flights and his girlfriend took his flight and they gave him another flight yet several hours later. The most ignorant part of this though, when questioned "where were you born" my brother said "London, UK", "But your passport says Kingston", "Yes, Kingston Upon Thames, near London, UK", "Well the only Kingston I know if Kingston, Jamaica". This delayed things a bit. Yes, the world is bigger than that corner of the earth! </rant> But the people their are some of the friendliest and hospitable people I have met, and I've travelled around a fair bit!
- anamax 15y ago
andersh 15y ago
more often than none, the "step aside" lane is far less crowded than the regular one, which means that despite the intensive search, it's still takes me less time. Strange. In my experience, all the queueing time is before you hit the border agent, there's very little queuing after that, apart from picking up your luggage and that guy glancing at your customs form.
megablast 15y ago
My Aussie passport looks very faded, especially the picture, from Venice. I have had problems in a few countries, Vietnam and Turkey, but never in the USA. I have been there quite a few times before hand, and I always expect the worst now, but have been quite lucky.

sneak 15y ago

I carry a US passport from being a US citizen, and I get similar treatment every time I enter the country, due to refusing to answer their voluntary questions about what I do for a living, where I'm going inside the USA, what I do in the country in which I live (Germany), etc. They have to let me in and they know it, so they exercise their power by detaining me for 2-8 hours and going through all of my stuff. It's always a real half-assed search, too. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc

billforsternz 15y ago
Wouldn't it be easier to answer the questions in a friendly manner ?
- bumbledraven 15y ago
  Wouldn't it have been easier for Rosa Parks to just go to the back of the bus?
- sneak 15y ago
  Not really. One is on video (and presumably audio) from a bunch of different angles, and even a tiny accidental mis-statement or contradiction is grounds for them to arrest you. Watch the linked video. It's a VOLUNTARY interaction. The only legally prudent thing to do is to STFU.

davidw 15y ago

Well it sounds like a success though - you didn't manage to blow anyone up, did you? :-) FWIW, I'm not wild about these "righteous indignation" articles on HN. This is one of the better ones I've seen, and I agree with it wholeheartedly, but... I feel that perhaps they're just better left to other sites.

cgoddard 15y ago
This article feels completely fitting with the hacker mindset. It's about people having a bad user experience. Trying to fix inconveniences and unpleasant experiences seems right along the same lines as the hacker ethic and entrepreneurial spirit to me. I'm sorry if you disagree.
- DanBC 15y ago
  True. There's also interesting discussion to be had about "hacking large bureaucratic systems - building in incentives for polite but effective behaviours or traffic flow analysis or what not.
- davidw 15y ago
  You're playing 6 degrees of hacker news: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=242484 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=242484 The problem is that these kind of articles breed - first it's this, then it's some other thing, then it's Mitt Romney, then it's Ron Paul, and in the end you're saddled with a lot of politics. And none of it is "intellectually stimulating". When I read the article, it just makes me irritated about the US policies and practices in place, but it's all information I already knew. Also, to me, the "hacker mindset" works a lot better for things you can just go fix, or avoid altogether. Fixing a large, messy, political problem in a large country is anything but that.
  - tripzilch 15y ago
    Yeah, politics, that must be it ... if everybody in your country would've just voted for the other guy the problem would've solved itself by now, wouldn't it? You sound exactly like one of those higher educated Chinese college kids arguing that whole censorship thing really isn't as bad as they make it sound ... Or, rather someone defending their abusive husband. "It's just a lot of poltics" == "Sometimes, he's just had a really rough day at work, you know?"

kamjam 15y ago

It's a well written article, good to see on a site like nytimes. I have to also agree with your statement. I have been to the states 3 times, first in 2006 where I flew into JFK and was "randomly selected" (woooo, I won!) and then detained for additional questionning for 5 hours. What did they ask me? Name, DoB, place of birth (all info IN MY PASSPORT ALREADY!), fathers/mothers name, address, what job I did, where I was staying. I have no problems them asking me, but it's the way they treat you. I got put in a waiting room, told to sit down and answer these question in an "application" form. Having filled this in they just told me to sit down. When I got up to ask what was taking so long, "Sir, would you please sit unless you are called". As if the sir makes it polite. Eventually they stamped my passport and I was through. Flash forward to July 2010, first stop Atlanta. Same deal. I'l also been backpacking for 6 months. That raised an eyebrow when he looked through all the stamps. I hadn't gone to any of those "terrorist" countries though. I was born in Bangladesh and have in the UK since I was a year old. I did get asked though - Did you have any military training before you left? - Have you been to country X, Y, Z - Why did you go to X, Y, Z. Do you not have a job? How did you get time off? - I even got asked why I left Bangladesh. Really?!? I was a year old mate, didn't really have a say in the matter! The last time I went was December 2011. That time was a breeze. Flew into Newark, I was already on the system now (I had a change of passport between first 2 visits). I STILL however got briefly questioned in the queue to the counter, I have no idea why, but colour of skin is the only thing... My brother went to Peru a few years back, he a his girlfriend had a stopover in Miami for a couple hours. Note they were not "entering" America, this was a compulsory refuel stop I guess. He gets hauled in, his girlfriend is sitting outside WTF is going on. He misses his flight due to the delay, they barely get him on the next flight but now his girlfriend has no fight since she was not hauled in. The airline to their credit were good, swapped their flights and his girlfriend took his flight and they gave him another flight yet several hours later. The most ignorant part of this though, when questioned "where were you born" my brother said "London, UK", "But your passport says Kingston", "Yes, Kingston Upon Thames, near London, UK", "Well the only Kingston I know if Kingston, Jamaica". This delayed things a bit. Yes, the world is bigger than that corner of the earth! </rant> But the people their are some of the friendliest and hospitable people I have met, and I've travelled around a fair bit!

anamax 15y ago

andersh 15y ago

more often than none, the "step aside" lane is far less crowded than the regular one, which means that despite the intensive search, it's still takes me less time. Strange. In my experience, all the queueing time is before you hit the border agent, there's very little queuing after that, apart from picking up your luggage and that guy glancing at your customs form.

megablast 15y ago

My Aussie passport looks very faded, especially the picture, from Venice. I have had problems in a few countries, Vietnam and Turkey, but never in the USA. I have been there quite a few times before hand, and I always expect the worst now, but have been quite lucky.