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I dunno, I am pretty sure I got Java readability the second month I was at Google and was already in the OWNERS file. I was a readability reviewer and most of

I dunno, I am pretty sure I got Java readability the second month I was at Google and was already in the OWNERS file. I was a readability reviewer and most of the readability CLs were the first project a person worked on at Google, often rather unnecessary but redone strictly to meet readability requirements (largely new code, more than X lines, etc.). I would go back and forth for quite a while to turn 1000 careless lines of throwaway code into 50 lines that were actually good, but I basically had to grant readability after that one interaction, and it never felt great to me. The most hated readability process at Google was Go's process (at least in the early days; k8s is obviously not using it), but I think it was actually one of the best. It took me a long time to get Go readability, but after going through the process I feel like I'd write the same Go code as anyone on the Go team. When I look at people's open source projects I think to myself "don't they know that that Simply Isn't Done?" But of course they don't; Go readability can only be experienced, not explained. People didn't like that process, and I am sure I said nasty things about it at the time, but in retrospect I really like it.

cornel_io 3y ago
As someone who quit Google in large part because of all the stuff like readability that I ran into there (red tape everywhere in sight, low productivity due to process, zero urgency bc everyone is fat off the money-printer, no deadlines for the same reasons, etc.), I was about to strongly disagree with you, and write yet another excoriating take on why readability is AlwaysBad(tm) and etc, etc. I did already snark elsewhere here... After taking a walk and reflecting, though, I'm remembering something that my manager said to me when I gave notice. Google is not for everyone, for a lot of reasons, and especially a lot of people who came up in startups really have problems (which is ironic since so many startups come out of people leaving Google). How you feel about readability may actually be a pretty good test of whether you will fit in at Google in the current era: it's not a small, scrappy company anymore that gets shit done quickly using whatever tool is most efficient RIGHT NOW and ships it as fast as possible to see if it gets product/market fit. It's a behemoth that runs one of the most prolific money-printing machines that has ever been built, and fucking that up would be a DISASTER. It'd be better to have half the engineers at the company do literally nothing for 10 out of 12 months in the year than to let someone accidentally break the money-printing machine for a day while they figure out how to fix it. And obviously, it's better if everyone is productive even as they're shuffled around from project to project (which they will be, a lot), which means that you want as little "voice" as possible in their code. At a lot of companies you can tell exactly who wrote a line of code just by the style (naming, patterns, etc.), without even checking git blame, but at a place like Google individual styles cause problems. So the goal is to erase as much individual voice/style/preference as possible, and make sure that anyone can slot in and take over at any point, without having to bother the person that originally wrote the code to explain it (they might be at another project, another division, another company, and even if they're still at Google there is a very strong sense that once a handoff is complete, you should not be bugging people to provide support for stuff they've moved on from). In that sense coding at Google is a lot closer to singing in a choir than being the frontman in a band: you need to commit to and be happy with minimizing what makes you unique or quirky, rather than trying to accentuate it and stand out. Some top-tier singers just can't force their vibratos down, or hide their distinctive timbres, or learn to blend with a group, and are absolute trash in a choir; it's not their fault or some ego failure, it's just that there are some voice types that don't work in groups, and that's fine, you just don't add those people to a choir. At least below director-level (or maybe L7 equivalent on an IC track), Google doesn't need individuals to come in and shake things up, bust apart processes and "10x" a codebase. That's startup shit, and even if it might sometimes be worth some risk for the high payoff, it's too dangerous for them to allow for the thousands upon thousands of (still quite senior, sometimes 15+ years of experience) L4 or L5s at the company. The same process that prevents that from happening also makes sure that the entire machine keeps humming along smoothly. If being a part of that smoothly functioning machine while painting within the lines is exciting, then Google can be one of the best places on the planet to work; if you would be driven crazy because you can't flex and YOLO a prototype out to users in a couple days, then it's really not going to be for you. I'm in the latter camp, I couldn't handle almost anything about the process and was so desperate to move quickly that I started talking to investors to line up my own funding a few months after I joined, but even as a quick-quit (<1 year), I have the utmost respect for the company and the people, and highly recommend it to almost everyone who applies there (the exception being people like me who TBH should just be doing their own startups). Everything they do has a pretty well thought out reason, even if I don't like following those rules myself.

cornel_io 3y ago

As someone who quit Google in large part because of all the stuff like readability that I ran into there (red tape everywhere in sight, low productivity due to process, zero urgency bc everyone is fat off the money-printer, no deadlines for the same reasons, etc.), I was about to strongly disagree with you, and write yet another excoriating take on why readability is AlwaysBad(tm) and etc, etc. I did already snark elsewhere here... After taking a walk and reflecting, though, I'm remembering something that my manager said to me when I gave notice. Google is not for everyone, for a lot of reasons, and especially a lot of people who came up in startups really have problems (which is ironic since so many startups come out of people leaving Google). How you feel about readability may actually be a pretty good test of whether you will fit in at Google in the current era: it's not a small, scrappy company anymore that gets shit done quickly using whatever tool is most efficient RIGHT NOW and ships it as fast as possible to see if it gets product/market fit. It's a behemoth that runs one of the most prolific money-printing machines that has ever been built, and fucking that up would be a DISASTER. It'd be better to have half the engineers at the company do literally nothing for 10 out of 12 months in the year than to let someone accidentally break the money-printing machine for a day while they figure out how to fix it. And obviously, it's better if everyone is productive even as they're shuffled around from project to project (which they will be, a lot), which means that you want as little "voice" as possible in their code. At a lot of companies you can tell exactly who wrote a line of code just by the style (naming, patterns, etc.), without even checking git blame, but at a place like Google individual styles cause problems. So the goal is to erase as much individual voice/style/preference as possible, and make sure that anyone can slot in and take over at any point, without having to bother the person that originally wrote the code to explain it (they might be at another project, another division, another company, and even if they're still at Google there is a very strong sense that once a handoff is complete, you should not be bugging people to provide support for stuff they've moved on from). In that sense coding at Google is a lot closer to singing in a choir than being the frontman in a band: you need to commit to and be happy with minimizing what makes you unique or quirky, rather than trying to accentuate it and stand out. Some top-tier singers just can't force their vibratos down, or hide their distinctive timbres, or learn to blend with a group, and are absolute trash in a choir; it's not their fault or some ego failure, it's just that there are some voice types that don't work in groups, and that's fine, you just don't add those people to a choir. At least below director-level (or maybe L7 equivalent on an IC track), Google doesn't need individuals to come in and shake things up, bust apart processes and "10x" a codebase. That's startup shit, and even if it might sometimes be worth some risk for the high payoff, it's too dangerous for them to allow for the thousands upon thousands of (still quite senior, sometimes 15+ years of experience) L4 or L5s at the company. The same process that prevents that from happening also makes sure that the entire machine keeps humming along smoothly. If being a part of that smoothly functioning machine while painting within the lines is exciting, then Google can be one of the best places on the planet to work; if you would be driven crazy because you can't flex and YOLO a prototype out to users in a couple days, then it's really not going to be for you. I'm in the latter camp, I couldn't handle almost anything about the process and was so desperate to move quickly that I started talking to investors to line up my own funding a few months after I joined, but even as a quick-quit (<1 year), I have the utmost respect for the company and the people, and highly recommend it to almost everyone who applies there (the exception being people like me who TBH should just be doing their own startups). Everything they do has a pretty well thought out reason, even if I don't like following those rules myself.