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Californians get annoyed we pay 50% more for gasoline usually. Most don't know we pay 500% more for electricity than many states. I have started telling every

Californians get annoyed we pay 50% more for gasoline usually. Most don't know we pay 500% more for electricity than many states. I have started telling everyone I know this fact. Almost no one knows it. Almost no one has anything to stay other than shake their head in silence.

wilg 3y ago
Maybe they don't have anything to say because they know it's not true and don't want to argue with you? https://www.eia.gov/electricity/state/ https://www.eia.gov/electricity/state/ California's average electricity rate is 2.4x that of the cheapest state. So it is not 500% more than any state, let alone many states.
- Rebelgecko 3y ago
  Those numbers seem totally off to me. I have a municipal utility company, so they don't have to worry about profit or anything like that. The lowest possible residential rate, for people who use a minimal amount of electricity at the cheapest times, is $0.2106/kWh. And that's before amortizing the daily "power access fee". Most people will be in the middle or top tier, where the marginal price can exceed $0.40/kWh. For PG&E, it looks like electricity starts at $0.38/kWh after taxes and goes up to $0.48/kWh for heavy users[1] For SoCal Edison, the cheapest tier is $0.36/kWh and goes up to $0.46/kWh for heavy users. Unless there's some secret to getting cheap electricity, or the numbers in your link don't include state taxes/fees, it seems impossible to me that the average residential kilowatt-hour of electricity only costs $0.19. Edit: FWIW, the BLS CPI calculations[3] say that rates in California metros range from $0.274-$0.475. They don't publish a CA average, but the "Pacific" regional average of $0.228/kWh is still above the $0.196/kWh figure, even after being brought down by states like Washington where electricity is ~75% cheaper than places like San Diego [1]: https://www.pge.com/pge_global/common/pdfs/rate-plans/how-rates-work/Residential-Rates-Plan-Pricing.pdf https://www.pge.com/pge_global/common/pdfs/rate-plans/how-ra... [2]: https://www.sce.com/residential/rates/Standard-Residential-Rate-Plan https://www.sce.com/residential/rates/Standard-Residential-R... [3]: https://www.bls.gov/regions/midwest/data/averageenergyprices_selectedareas_table.htm https://www.bls.gov/regions/midwest/data/averageenergyprices...
  - wilg 3y ago
    This is an interesting point. The link (nor the GP) doesn't claim it's "residential" though, just "retail". Perhaps commercial rates significantly lower it? If you have better data, I'd love to see if it affects the substance of the GPs post.
    - Rebelgecko 3y ago
      Oh, that makes sense. My understanding is that industrial users of electricity can get some hefty discounts. Unfortunately that isn't helpful for the average person or when comparing cost of living between two regions.
  - mdeeks 3y ago
    For PG&E it appears they have an EV specific rate plan that is cheaper. It says it is $0.27/kWh for off peak charging. https://www.pge.com/pge_global/local/images/data/en-us/rate-plans/rate-plan-options/rates-ev2-a-745px.png https://www.pge.com/pge_global/local/images/data/en-us/rate-... I can't link directly to the tab but its the second tab on this page: https://www.pge.com/en_US/residential/rate-plans/rate-plan-options/electric-vehicle-base-plan/electric-vehicle-base-plan.page https://www.pge.com/en_US/residential/rate-plans/rate-plan-o... If you're lucky enough to live in Alameda, it has its own municipal power. Their EV rates are significantly cheaper at $0.15/kWh https://www.alamedamp.com/393/TOU-Time-of-Use-Rate-for-EV-Owners https://www.alamedamp.com/393/TOU-Time-of-Use-Rate-for-EV-Ow...
    - m463 3y ago
      yes but during the day the ev plan is 58c/kwh
    - Rebelgecko 3y ago
      I think offpeak EV charging is a relatively small fraction of overall electricity consumption.
      - mdeeks 3y ago
- ender341341 3y ago
  I feel like that table is at the wrong scale/isn't super useful (though the GPs scale is the same). For example with WA it lists the price as .0875, but for the majority (population) of the state it's ~.10/.11, and then for the rest (mostly eastern wa) it's like .04. I'm guessing if the GP did have a source it'd be "this specific county in CA is 5x more than these sets of counties that sell electricity to other counties to subsidize their users"
- talldatethrow 3y ago
  I know several out of state friends paying $0.08 I read up on EV forums and solar forums. Ive seen people paying $0.06 I'm paying $0.38+ in California Sure I use a bit of hyperbole in my stat... But it's still outrageous, and armchair 3 second googling isn't going to convince me. And now, the people I talk to agree with the general sentiment they just can't believe how screwed were all getting and how basically there is nothing we can do about it. Usually the conversation quickly turns to moving out of California soon.
  - wilg 3y ago
    I’ll take a source with some published methodology over anecdotes any day. But for an anecdote, I pay $0.18/kWh for off-peak electricity in the middle of Los Angeles. Peak is $0.27. I also have 1:1 net metering so they’ll buy excess solar and battery at the same rate.
    - talldatethrow 3y ago
      Nice, I'll add "only 300% more than some states when off peak in LA" to my data.
      - wilg 3y ago
        At least that's true!
    - Auracle 3y ago
      Here are my rates in Minnesota: https://www.kpcoop.com/rates-0 https://www.kpcoop.com/rates-0
    - talldatethrow 3y ago
      This is exactly what's wrong with modern people. You'll believe some generalized 'study' instead of common sense data.
      - wilg 3y ago
        "Common sense" is just your own personal bias. This is why we have science!
- m463 3y ago
  That is false. They juggle the numbers and hide all kinds of surcharges. There are tiered plans and time-of-use plans that make it almost impossible to get the rates other states have 24/7. for example, an electric vehicle plan that discounts electricity to 27c/kwh at night for charging, makes you pay 58c/kwh during the day. Basically they outlaw air conditioning (and any kind of daytime appliance use). The upside to this is that it lets people install solar + batteries and make themselves independent of the utility. I expect the long game is to bow out of residential electricity (which has more expensive infrastructure), get some sort of "minimum payment" plan in place to cover it anyhow, and collect ruinous rates from city dwellers with no solar ability and where infrastructure per household is efficiently deployed.
  - wilg 3y ago
    Prove it

wilg 3y ago

Maybe they don't have anything to say because they know it's not true and don't want to argue with you? https://www.eia.gov/electricity/state/ https://www.eia.gov/electricity/state/ California's average electricity rate is 2.4x that of the cheapest state. So it is not 500% more than any state, let alone many states.

Rebelgecko 3y ago
Those numbers seem totally off to me. I have a municipal utility company, so they don't have to worry about profit or anything like that. The lowest possible residential rate, for people who use a minimal amount of electricity at the cheapest times, is $0.2106/kWh. And that's before amortizing the daily "power access fee". Most people will be in the middle or top tier, where the marginal price can exceed $0.40/kWh. For PG&E, it looks like electricity starts at $0.38/kWh after taxes and goes up to $0.48/kWh for heavy users[1] For SoCal Edison, the cheapest tier is $0.36/kWh and goes up to $0.46/kWh for heavy users. Unless there's some secret to getting cheap electricity, or the numbers in your link don't include state taxes/fees, it seems impossible to me that the average residential kilowatt-hour of electricity only costs $0.19. Edit: FWIW, the BLS CPI calculations[3] say that rates in California metros range from $0.274-$0.475. They don't publish a CA average, but the "Pacific" regional average of $0.228/kWh is still above the $0.196/kWh figure, even after being brought down by states like Washington where electricity is ~75% cheaper than places like San Diego [1]: https://www.pge.com/pge_global/common/pdfs/rate-plans/how-rates-work/Residential-Rates-Plan-Pricing.pdf https://www.pge.com/pge_global/common/pdfs/rate-plans/how-ra... [2]: https://www.sce.com/residential/rates/Standard-Residential-Rate-Plan https://www.sce.com/residential/rates/Standard-Residential-R... [3]: https://www.bls.gov/regions/midwest/data/averageenergyprices_selectedareas_table.htm https://www.bls.gov/regions/midwest/data/averageenergyprices...
- wilg 3y ago
  This is an interesting point. The link (nor the GP) doesn't claim it's "residential" though, just "retail". Perhaps commercial rates significantly lower it? If you have better data, I'd love to see if it affects the substance of the GPs post.
  - Rebelgecko 3y ago
    Oh, that makes sense. My understanding is that industrial users of electricity can get some hefty discounts. Unfortunately that isn't helpful for the average person or when comparing cost of living between two regions.
- mdeeks 3y ago
  For PG&E it appears they have an EV specific rate plan that is cheaper. It says it is $0.27/kWh for off peak charging. https://www.pge.com/pge_global/local/images/data/en-us/rate-plans/rate-plan-options/rates-ev2-a-745px.png https://www.pge.com/pge_global/local/images/data/en-us/rate-... I can't link directly to the tab but its the second tab on this page: https://www.pge.com/en_US/residential/rate-plans/rate-plan-options/electric-vehicle-base-plan/electric-vehicle-base-plan.page https://www.pge.com/en_US/residential/rate-plans/rate-plan-o... If you're lucky enough to live in Alameda, it has its own municipal power. Their EV rates are significantly cheaper at $0.15/kWh https://www.alamedamp.com/393/TOU-Time-of-Use-Rate-for-EV-Owners https://www.alamedamp.com/393/TOU-Time-of-Use-Rate-for-EV-Ow...
  - m463 3y ago
    yes but during the day the ev plan is 58c/kwh
  - Rebelgecko 3y ago
    I think offpeak EV charging is a relatively small fraction of overall electricity consumption.
    - mdeeks 3y ago
ender341341 3y ago
I feel like that table is at the wrong scale/isn't super useful (though the GPs scale is the same). For example with WA it lists the price as .0875, but for the majority (population) of the state it's ~.10/.11, and then for the rest (mostly eastern wa) it's like .04. I'm guessing if the GP did have a source it'd be "this specific county in CA is 5x more than these sets of counties that sell electricity to other counties to subsidize their users"
talldatethrow 3y ago
I know several out of state friends paying $0.08 I read up on EV forums and solar forums. Ive seen people paying $0.06 I'm paying $0.38+ in California Sure I use a bit of hyperbole in my stat... But it's still outrageous, and armchair 3 second googling isn't going to convince me. And now, the people I talk to agree with the general sentiment they just can't believe how screwed were all getting and how basically there is nothing we can do about it. Usually the conversation quickly turns to moving out of California soon.
- wilg 3y ago
  I’ll take a source with some published methodology over anecdotes any day. But for an anecdote, I pay $0.18/kWh for off-peak electricity in the middle of Los Angeles. Peak is $0.27. I also have 1:1 net metering so they’ll buy excess solar and battery at the same rate.
  - talldatethrow 3y ago
    Nice, I'll add "only 300% more than some states when off peak in LA" to my data.
    - wilg 3y ago
      At least that's true!
  - Auracle 3y ago
    Here are my rates in Minnesota: https://www.kpcoop.com/rates-0 https://www.kpcoop.com/rates-0
  - talldatethrow 3y ago
    This is exactly what's wrong with modern people. You'll believe some generalized 'study' instead of common sense data.
    - wilg 3y ago
      "Common sense" is just your own personal bias. This is why we have science!
m463 3y ago
That is false. They juggle the numbers and hide all kinds of surcharges. There are tiered plans and time-of-use plans that make it almost impossible to get the rates other states have 24/7. for example, an electric vehicle plan that discounts electricity to 27c/kwh at night for charging, makes you pay 58c/kwh during the day. Basically they outlaw air conditioning (and any kind of daytime appliance use). The upside to this is that it lets people install solar + batteries and make themselves independent of the utility. I expect the long game is to bow out of residential electricity (which has more expensive infrastructure), get some sort of "minimum payment" plan in place to cover it anyhow, and collect ruinous rates from city dwellers with no solar ability and where infrastructure per household is efficiently deployed.
- wilg 3y ago
  Prove it