4 ms·

This was interesting because, as an American who has traveled abroad, I was not aware that we make even our closest allies, the British, pay a fee online before

This was interesting because, as an American who has traveled abroad, I was not aware that we make even our closest allies, the British, pay a fee online before entering America. I would love to hear from foreigners on their border experiences.

corin_ 15y ago
Compared to flying somewhere where you need an actually approved visa, like China, ESTA is both conveniant and cheap. Given that until not long ago we Brits needed a visa to go to America, it's a hell of a step up.
- vidarh 15y ago
  It might be a step up from the visas, but it's a step down from the previous state with the visa waiver program and no requirement to fill in anything at all online.
  - arethuza 15y ago
    Didn't you have to fill in two forms on the flight (a green one and a white one) rather than one now?
    - narcissus 15y ago
      Not that I fly that often, but I don't mind filling out two forms when I'm on a plane. Knowing that I had to do an online application before getting on the plane... that was just a fluke that I found that out! I just don't like the whole "oh yeah, we have a visa waiver agreement with your country... you don't have to apply for a visa, but you do have to apply and pay to not have to apply for a visa..." I'm sure it's not like that in reality, but that's what it feels like to me.
      - buro9 15y ago
        You're lucky that you don't have to apply for a visa. I do, and it's not fun. I have an application in the works at the moment, started the process with the US Embassy on 28th October 2011, and here I am 4 months and 17 days later not knowing anything and no idea when I might hear. Ignoring all other points (2-6 hours in secondary being interrogated at the border), the endless process for getting a Visa is a real pain and a massive deterrent. It's not like this is my first time, I've visited the US more than 10 times and had visit Visas in the past. Nothing has changed, but each application still takes an indeterminately long time. I was hoping to go to a conference, but it's too late now, it's passed. Perhaps to also try and make some meetings with some potential business partners. The reality keeps coming home: Just don't bother. It's far more hassle than it's worth. If you get past the Visa (a gamble in itself), then you still have the border to look forward to. I cannot recall a single trip in which crossing the border was anything less than hellish. This, of course, is all anecdotal. But behind anecdotes are people, this is my unfortunate reality.
    - rwmj 15y ago
      At Logan you have to do the forms and ESTA (at least, this was the case last year). It was something to do with the systems not being integrated.
      - gcoleman 15y ago
        Flying into LAX last year I had to do ESTA before I left, fill out 2 forms on the plane, and also give some of the same information to the airline when I checked in in London. I don't really mind having to fill out some forms to get into a country, it's having to do the same thing 4 times that's annoying.
    - cstross 15y ago
      The green I-94W (visa waiver) form is what the ESTA has replaced. The ESTA website does its best to re-implement the I-94W in exact detail, right down to the background colour. For the first couple of years they ran the system in parallel -- ESTA was a legal requirement, but because the systems weren't integrated they kept handing out the old I-94W's. Now they've spliced it all together the paper forms are no longer required. The white customs declaration is still used, though. And I suspect it'll stick around for a very long time (because the precise details change for any given traveller on any given flight).
- john_flintstone 15y ago
  That's true. Chinese visa procedures are nightmarish, and can change without warning. But it's a bureaucratic and paperwork nightmare, not an inter-personal nightmare - there's no third degree. And once you land on Chinese soil, border control is a breeze. I'd much sooner take the grief weeks before the trip than when I land, tired after a long haul flight.
  - corin_ 15y ago
    Last time I went to China I and several colleagues were placed into quarantine (biohazard suits around us) for about an hour, and later had to bribe a customs officer to get the tech. equipment we had shipped seperately out of the airport.. not always a breeze!
  - gurkendoktor 15y ago
    So true. I had lots of bureaucratic trouble even when transferring in China, and a Taiwanese friend was forced to sit down in police observation for three hours while waiting for a connecting flight. Yet everybody was relaxed and friendly during all the insanity.
arethuza 15y ago
I don't think ESTA is that bad, it's low cost and each application lasts for two years (at least my current one does). At least you can do this online - some countries (I think Turkey still does this) demand that you pay cash for a visa each time you arrive.
- christkv 15y ago
  it's not that bad but I hope the EU charges them a fee as retribution. Brasil does it right. Make life difficult for people from countries that make it difficult for their citizens.
daliusd 15y ago
Actually it feels like lottery "how easy it will be this time?". Once my colleague had to answer bunch of stupid questions about company's laptop. Once I had very unpleasant experience: I'm tired after 20 hours without sleep and I put my hand wrongly for fingerprint scanning - guy was very unhappy about that and assumed I did that on purpose most probably. After that followed interrogation like questions. Sometimes it is really easy and dealing with bureaucratic burden is really minor issue for me.
lysium 15y ago
Last time, I had to 'step aside', presumably because my passport was not all-new-shiny (though I'm from Germany). Of course, nobody tells you that. You have to wait in a room for one hour (I was lucky!) without anybody telling you what the issue is, how long you will have to wait, or what is happening at all. You understand that I have different associations with this kind of treatment and 'legal' or 'friendly' does not cross my mind in this situation. This treatment makes me angry, but you have to be treated like this yourself before you can understand that anger. I won't visit the States as a tourist anymore as long as this ridiculous setup is in place (which includes your TSA madness). I'm afraid of the day my employer asks me to travel to the States. I hope I can decline.
rwmj 15y ago
[I'm British and unfortunately have to travel to the US about once or twice a year for conferences] As others have said, it's an unpleasant lottery. Mostly you wait a long time in line, and then you go through. But twice I've been asked to step into a back room while some very slow process happens (I wasn't questioned in detail either time, so I don't really know what was going on). That added about an extra hour on each occasion, and is somewhat threatening. This year I'm not going to the US at all. Mostly that's because there aren't any interesting conferences, but there's also in the back of my mind I'm slightly glad that I don't have to go through this fandango.

corin_ 15y ago

Compared to flying somewhere where you need an actually approved visa, like China, ESTA is both conveniant and cheap. Given that until not long ago we Brits needed a visa to go to America, it's a hell of a step up.

vidarh 15y ago
It might be a step up from the visas, but it's a step down from the previous state with the visa waiver program and no requirement to fill in anything at all online.
- arethuza 15y ago
  Didn't you have to fill in two forms on the flight (a green one and a white one) rather than one now?
  - narcissus 15y ago
    Not that I fly that often, but I don't mind filling out two forms when I'm on a plane. Knowing that I had to do an online application before getting on the plane... that was just a fluke that I found that out! I just don't like the whole "oh yeah, we have a visa waiver agreement with your country... you don't have to apply for a visa, but you do have to apply and pay to not have to apply for a visa..." I'm sure it's not like that in reality, but that's what it feels like to me.
    - buro9 15y ago
      You're lucky that you don't have to apply for a visa. I do, and it's not fun. I have an application in the works at the moment, started the process with the US Embassy on 28th October 2011, and here I am 4 months and 17 days later not knowing anything and no idea when I might hear. Ignoring all other points (2-6 hours in secondary being interrogated at the border), the endless process for getting a Visa is a real pain and a massive deterrent. It's not like this is my first time, I've visited the US more than 10 times and had visit Visas in the past. Nothing has changed, but each application still takes an indeterminately long time. I was hoping to go to a conference, but it's too late now, it's passed. Perhaps to also try and make some meetings with some potential business partners. The reality keeps coming home: Just don't bother. It's far more hassle than it's worth. If you get past the Visa (a gamble in itself), then you still have the border to look forward to. I cannot recall a single trip in which crossing the border was anything less than hellish. This, of course, is all anecdotal. But behind anecdotes are people, this is my unfortunate reality.
  - rwmj 15y ago
    At Logan you have to do the forms and ESTA (at least, this was the case last year). It was something to do with the systems not being integrated.
    - gcoleman 15y ago
      Flying into LAX last year I had to do ESTA before I left, fill out 2 forms on the plane, and also give some of the same information to the airline when I checked in in London. I don't really mind having to fill out some forms to get into a country, it's having to do the same thing 4 times that's annoying.
  - cstross 15y ago
    The green I-94W (visa waiver) form is what the ESTA has replaced. The ESTA website does its best to re-implement the I-94W in exact detail, right down to the background colour. For the first couple of years they ran the system in parallel -- ESTA was a legal requirement, but because the systems weren't integrated they kept handing out the old I-94W's. Now they've spliced it all together the paper forms are no longer required. The white customs declaration is still used, though. And I suspect it'll stick around for a very long time (because the precise details change for any given traveller on any given flight).
john_flintstone 15y ago
That's true. Chinese visa procedures are nightmarish, and can change without warning. But it's a bureaucratic and paperwork nightmare, not an inter-personal nightmare - there's no third degree. And once you land on Chinese soil, border control is a breeze. I'd much sooner take the grief weeks before the trip than when I land, tired after a long haul flight.
- corin_ 15y ago
  Last time I went to China I and several colleagues were placed into quarantine (biohazard suits around us) for about an hour, and later had to bribe a customs officer to get the tech. equipment we had shipped seperately out of the airport.. not always a breeze!
- gurkendoktor 15y ago
  So true. I had lots of bureaucratic trouble even when transferring in China, and a Taiwanese friend was forced to sit down in police observation for three hours while waiting for a connecting flight. Yet everybody was relaxed and friendly during all the insanity.

arethuza 15y ago

I don't think ESTA is that bad, it's low cost and each application lasts for two years (at least my current one does). At least you can do this online - some countries (I think Turkey still does this) demand that you pay cash for a visa each time you arrive.

christkv 15y ago
it's not that bad but I hope the EU charges them a fee as retribution. Brasil does it right. Make life difficult for people from countries that make it difficult for their citizens.

daliusd 15y ago

Actually it feels like lottery "how easy it will be this time?". Once my colleague had to answer bunch of stupid questions about company's laptop. Once I had very unpleasant experience: I'm tired after 20 hours without sleep and I put my hand wrongly for fingerprint scanning - guy was very unhappy about that and assumed I did that on purpose most probably. After that followed interrogation like questions. Sometimes it is really easy and dealing with bureaucratic burden is really minor issue for me.

lysium 15y ago

Last time, I had to 'step aside', presumably because my passport was not all-new-shiny (though I'm from Germany). Of course, nobody tells you that. You have to wait in a room for one hour (I was lucky!) without anybody telling you what the issue is, how long you will have to wait, or what is happening at all. You understand that I have different associations with this kind of treatment and 'legal' or 'friendly' does not cross my mind in this situation. This treatment makes me angry, but you have to be treated like this yourself before you can understand that anger. I won't visit the States as a tourist anymore as long as this ridiculous setup is in place (which includes your TSA madness). I'm afraid of the day my employer asks me to travel to the States. I hope I can decline.

rwmj 15y ago

[I'm British and unfortunately have to travel to the US about once or twice a year for conferences] As others have said, it's an unpleasant lottery. Mostly you wait a long time in line, and then you go through. But twice I've been asked to step into a back room while some very slow process happens (I wasn't questioned in detail either time, so I don't really know what was going on). That added about an extra hour on each occasion, and is somewhat threatening. This year I'm not going to the US at all. Mostly that's because there aren't any interesting conferences, but there's also in the back of my mind I'm slightly glad that I don't have to go through this fandango.