7 ms·

I'm a white middle class U.S. citizen. The only country's borders that I get nervous crossing are America's. I've gotten harassed quite a few times. I'm at t

I'm a white middle class U.S. citizen. The only country's borders that I get nervous crossing are America's. I've gotten harassed quite a few times. I'm at the point where I wonder if I'm on a watch list. Last time I was in Germany for 3 months before flying back to the U.S. Questions I was asked in an unfriendly, brusque manner: Why were you gone so long? Don't you work? What do you do for a living? Why would your employer let you be gone so long? Why did you pay so much for that? I wish foreigners would stop visiting the U.S. Maybe then we would change our policies.

phatbyte 15y ago
It's already happening in some way, lots of people I know refuse to travel to US because of so many horror border stories. In Europe everything is so much simpler. If you are inside UE all you need to show is your ID card and your are set. Why doesn't US do the same thing with european countries at least ? Same thing for working VISA, we are the good-old-europe for god sake :P not a quarantine zone
- vidarh 15y ago
  > In Europe everything is so much simpler. If you are inside UE all you need to show is your ID card and your are set. If you are inside the Schengen area, you only need to show your id card. Go to/from the UK, and you still need your passport. Traveling between Schengen countries is more comparable to traveling between US states than from Europe to US or reverse, because the whole point of Schengen is a common system for protecting the "outer" borders.
  - rcj 15y ago
    A German id card is enough to enter/leave the UK. No passport required. I would assume the same holds for other european id cards.
    - Sharlin 15y ago
      It holds for many European countries. The United Kingdom has separate passport-free travel agreements with most, but not all, Schengen countries (and with some non-Schengen countries as well.)
  - phatbyte 15y ago
    No true, I travel to the UK very often and I only show my ID, which works as a passport inside EU countries.
    - deleted 15y ago
      [deleted]
  - merijnv 15y ago
    To be fair, my travel outside of the Schengen has still been a lot more pleasant than the way the US border is described...
  - john_flintstone 15y ago
    Not if you're travelling from Ireland. You don't need to show any ID - though technically, if you're not an EU citizen you're supposed to join a different exit queue.
- bambax 15y ago
  > In Europe everything is so much simpler. If you are inside UE all you need to show is your ID card and your are set. Simpler than that. Inside the Schengen zone, there are no borders at all; you can travel by car from France to Italy or Germany and back without being stopped anywhere.
  - yaix 15y ago
    You can just start working anywhere inside the Schengen area without needing any permit or working visa. Its more like the US States rather than different countries.
    - jwr 15y ago
      Not true. Unfortunately. The Schengen agreements regulate short-term stays only. For long-term stay or work there are specific laws, different for each country. I wish this were different, but Europe still has a long way to go before it is a single open market.
      - yaix 15y ago
        If you are a Schengen citizen then try it. Just grab your stuff and go to Valencia or Stockholm and stay there for 10 year, no problem. Of course you have to pay tax there, register locally, etc. As EU citizen, you can even vote in local elections, as voter and candidate. But not all EU countries are in Schengen, and not all Schengen countries EU members. In many countries, the people are just too afraid for change. Same as with the Euro. People in countries like Sweden or UK are just too afraid to give up control of their own currency.
andyking 15y ago
I dread crossing through American border control at the airport every single time. I use O'Hare, and they literally look and talk to you like dirt. I'm doing nothing wrong, I'm visiting America for legitimate reasons, yet I'm barked at like an army recruit. Last time, I couldn't tell what the guy behind the glass screen was actually asking me to do, which irritated him immensely. "Lef'and." "Lef'and." "LEF'AND." It took a few tries for me to realise that what he was trying to say was "Can you put your left hand on the scanner, please?" Maybe it's because I'm British, but I find the British border and security people far more pleasant, which is strange because on the whole, I find British people colder than Americans. Even when something goes wrong, they're apologetic (I was randomly picked for a full pat-down last time I flew out of Manchester, and it was all done with friendliness, good humour, and apologies for delaying me slightly.) "Please" and "thank you" cost nothing, and would likely be quicker than these repeated barked orders. I like the American people--on the whole, I find them pleasant, polite, good-humoured, decent people. I mean, I am marrying one! So where do they find these people who work on the borders? Every single time I go through, I'm incredibly nervous of doing something slightly wrong, which makes me more nervous because I look nervous and worry they'll think I'm up to something. It's terrifying.
- ivix 15y ago
  The behaviour of all british border agents whether actually at the border or at embassies around the world are a credit the country, in my experience. They understand that the border is the public face of a country and likely the only contact with the state a visitor will make.
  - com 15y ago
    I remember once going through the non-EU queue in Manchester, when the (black, probably Nigerian) guy in front of me got a bit of a going over about his visa status, until he broke down, then the agent discovered that he was a UK permanent resident as she was flicking through his passport and she realised he'd been turned away in Amsterdam (seems on a family visit). Anyway, the mood changed in an instant, he got a hug and advice about how to make sure the trip would work next time. It was nice to see a human response in such a situation.
furyg3 15y ago
The secret phrase that makes the troll let you cross the bridge is "Am I free to go?" You're an American citizen, they can't deny you entry.
- yequalsx 15y ago
  I know that it was a Supreme Court ruling that Americans had an absolute right to come into the country. But in the present time we live in a situation where being labeled an enemy combatant or terrorist is grounds for indefinite detention without recourse to Habeas Corpus. Also, my girlfriend comes to the U.S. and I don't want to fuck things up for her. They know about her because she gets asked why she and I were in Turkey together 4 years ago.
paganel 15y ago
> I'm at the point where I wonder if I'm on a watch list. At this point "they" have already won. It doesn't really matter who "they" is, but I can tell you that having grown up as a kid in a former East-European communist country the feeling that every sane person had on their back of their heads was: "The Securitate is watching me. Better not do anything fancy" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Securitate http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Securitate) . Even though, of course, the Securitate was only actively "watching" a small number of persons.
- yequalsx 15y ago
  I grew up in the Canal Zone during the transition to full control to Panama. It was during the Noriega years and I had quite a few Panamanian friends and went into Panama City a lot. It was a dictatorship. Not at the same level of Romania but it was a dictatorship and I remember how one had to approach cops. In the U.S. people laugh at me when I say that I can no longer tell the difference between how to approach cops in America versus a dictatorship. We Americans have been manipulated by our leaders and it's sad for me to see how easily it was done.
  - refurb 15y ago
    Care to elaborate? I had a good friend who grew up in Romania and his stories scare the crap out of me. 1. Your next door neighbor is just gone one day, replaced with another family. Nobody asks why or what happened. You just don't ask. 2. Election ballets are write-ins. One guy wrote "Mickey Mouse" on the ballet and they came looking for him. He was forced to report to the local police station to watch propaganda videos for 8 hours a day for 8 days. People can complain about how things are going here in the US, but to say it becoming more and more like a dictatorship seems a little disingenuous.
    - yequalsx 15y ago
      Well it wasn't as bad in Panama under Noriega as it was in Romania under Ceaușescu. Panama couldn't be called a benevolent dictatorship but it wasn't the worst of them. Times were tough in Panama and this includes being tough for the cops. I had to pay bribes. I was once questioned by the police over a matter and was scared I'd be taken to a holding cell in Panama City. If you were put in a holding cell in Panama City and were not considered friendly to the regime you could be placed in a cell were you would be sexually assaulted by transvestites put in the cell for such a purpose. Some areas - nice areas - were off limits to Americans who knew better. Places were officer of the Panamanian military lived. You didn't want to be caught there. When stopped by cops you considered it a good thing if the only thing that happened was that you lost money. It was much worse for Panamanians than for Americans. We did have a military presence and until the end Noriega didn't want to push the boundaries of acceptable behavior too much. The two defining characteristics in my mind of a police state are a feeling of powerlessness when dealing with police forces and the feeling of arbitrariness of how police forces deal with you. We aren't at the point of police statehood yet but I see the U.S. going down this path.

phatbyte 15y ago

It's already happening in some way, lots of people I know refuse to travel to US because of so many horror border stories. In Europe everything is so much simpler. If you are inside UE all you need to show is your ID card and your are set. Why doesn't US do the same thing with european countries at least ? Same thing for working VISA, we are the good-old-europe for god sake :P not a quarantine zone

vidarh 15y ago
> In Europe everything is so much simpler. If you are inside UE all you need to show is your ID card and your are set. If you are inside the Schengen area, you only need to show your id card. Go to/from the UK, and you still need your passport. Traveling between Schengen countries is more comparable to traveling between US states than from Europe to US or reverse, because the whole point of Schengen is a common system for protecting the "outer" borders.
- rcj 15y ago
  A German id card is enough to enter/leave the UK. No passport required. I would assume the same holds for other european id cards.
  - Sharlin 15y ago
    It holds for many European countries. The United Kingdom has separate passport-free travel agreements with most, but not all, Schengen countries (and with some non-Schengen countries as well.)
- phatbyte 15y ago
  No true, I travel to the UK very often and I only show my ID, which works as a passport inside EU countries.
  - deleted 15y ago
    [deleted]
- merijnv 15y ago
  To be fair, my travel outside of the Schengen has still been a lot more pleasant than the way the US border is described...
- john_flintstone 15y ago
  Not if you're travelling from Ireland. You don't need to show any ID - though technically, if you're not an EU citizen you're supposed to join a different exit queue.
bambax 15y ago
> In Europe everything is so much simpler. If you are inside UE all you need to show is your ID card and your are set. Simpler than that. Inside the Schengen zone, there are no borders at all; you can travel by car from France to Italy or Germany and back without being stopped anywhere.
- yaix 15y ago
  You can just start working anywhere inside the Schengen area without needing any permit or working visa. Its more like the US States rather than different countries.
  - jwr 15y ago
    Not true. Unfortunately. The Schengen agreements regulate short-term stays only. For long-term stay or work there are specific laws, different for each country. I wish this were different, but Europe still has a long way to go before it is a single open market.
    - yaix 15y ago
      If you are a Schengen citizen then try it. Just grab your stuff and go to Valencia or Stockholm and stay there for 10 year, no problem. Of course you have to pay tax there, register locally, etc. As EU citizen, you can even vote in local elections, as voter and candidate. But not all EU countries are in Schengen, and not all Schengen countries EU members. In many countries, the people are just too afraid for change. Same as with the Euro. People in countries like Sweden or UK are just too afraid to give up control of their own currency.

andyking 15y ago

I dread crossing through American border control at the airport every single time. I use O'Hare, and they literally look and talk to you like dirt. I'm doing nothing wrong, I'm visiting America for legitimate reasons, yet I'm barked at like an army recruit. Last time, I couldn't tell what the guy behind the glass screen was actually asking me to do, which irritated him immensely. "Lef'and." "Lef'and." "LEF'AND." It took a few tries for me to realise that what he was trying to say was "Can you put your left hand on the scanner, please?" Maybe it's because I'm British, but I find the British border and security people far more pleasant, which is strange because on the whole, I find British people colder than Americans. Even when something goes wrong, they're apologetic (I was randomly picked for a full pat-down last time I flew out of Manchester, and it was all done with friendliness, good humour, and apologies for delaying me slightly.) "Please" and "thank you" cost nothing, and would likely be quicker than these repeated barked orders. I like the American people--on the whole, I find them pleasant, polite, good-humoured, decent people. I mean, I am marrying one! So where do they find these people who work on the borders? Every single time I go through, I'm incredibly nervous of doing something slightly wrong, which makes me more nervous because I look nervous and worry they'll think I'm up to something. It's terrifying.

ivix 15y ago
The behaviour of all british border agents whether actually at the border or at embassies around the world are a credit the country, in my experience. They understand that the border is the public face of a country and likely the only contact with the state a visitor will make.
- com 15y ago
  I remember once going through the non-EU queue in Manchester, when the (black, probably Nigerian) guy in front of me got a bit of a going over about his visa status, until he broke down, then the agent discovered that he was a UK permanent resident as she was flicking through his passport and she realised he'd been turned away in Amsterdam (seems on a family visit). Anyway, the mood changed in an instant, he got a hug and advice about how to make sure the trip would work next time. It was nice to see a human response in such a situation.

furyg3 15y ago

The secret phrase that makes the troll let you cross the bridge is "Am I free to go?" You're an American citizen, they can't deny you entry.

yequalsx 15y ago
I know that it was a Supreme Court ruling that Americans had an absolute right to come into the country. But in the present time we live in a situation where being labeled an enemy combatant or terrorist is grounds for indefinite detention without recourse to Habeas Corpus. Also, my girlfriend comes to the U.S. and I don't want to fuck things up for her. They know about her because she gets asked why she and I were in Turkey together 4 years ago.

paganel 15y ago

> I'm at the point where I wonder if I'm on a watch list. At this point "they" have already won. It doesn't really matter who "they" is, but I can tell you that having grown up as a kid in a former East-European communist country the feeling that every sane person had on their back of their heads was: "The Securitate is watching me. Better not do anything fancy" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Securitate http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Securitate) . Even though, of course, the Securitate was only actively "watching" a small number of persons.

yequalsx 15y ago
I grew up in the Canal Zone during the transition to full control to Panama. It was during the Noriega years and I had quite a few Panamanian friends and went into Panama City a lot. It was a dictatorship. Not at the same level of Romania but it was a dictatorship and I remember how one had to approach cops. In the U.S. people laugh at me when I say that I can no longer tell the difference between how to approach cops in America versus a dictatorship. We Americans have been manipulated by our leaders and it's sad for me to see how easily it was done.
- refurb 15y ago
  Care to elaborate? I had a good friend who grew up in Romania and his stories scare the crap out of me. 1. Your next door neighbor is just gone one day, replaced with another family. Nobody asks why or what happened. You just don't ask. 2. Election ballets are write-ins. One guy wrote "Mickey Mouse" on the ballet and they came looking for him. He was forced to report to the local police station to watch propaganda videos for 8 hours a day for 8 days. People can complain about how things are going here in the US, but to say it becoming more and more like a dictatorship seems a little disingenuous.
  - yequalsx 15y ago
    Well it wasn't as bad in Panama under Noriega as it was in Romania under Ceaușescu. Panama couldn't be called a benevolent dictatorship but it wasn't the worst of them. Times were tough in Panama and this includes being tough for the cops. I had to pay bribes. I was once questioned by the police over a matter and was scared I'd be taken to a holding cell in Panama City. If you were put in a holding cell in Panama City and were not considered friendly to the regime you could be placed in a cell were you would be sexually assaulted by transvestites put in the cell for such a purpose. Some areas - nice areas - were off limits to Americans who knew better. Places were officer of the Panamanian military lived. You didn't want to be caught there. When stopped by cops you considered it a good thing if the only thing that happened was that you lost money. It was much worse for Panamanians than for Americans. We did have a military presence and until the end Noriega didn't want to push the boundaries of acceptable behavior too much. The two defining characteristics in my mind of a police state are a feeling of powerlessness when dealing with police forces and the feeling of arbitrariness of how police forces deal with you. We aren't at the point of police statehood yet but I see the U.S. going down this path.