4 ms·

Setting aside the mid-2000s-programming-interview-riddle blog post, is CO2 even the problem wrt automotive air pollution?: https://www.theguardian.com/environme

by nerdo 3y ago

Setting aside the mid-2000s-programming-interview-riddle blog post, is CO2 even the problem wrt automotive air pollution?: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyre...

pge 3y ago
For mitigating climate change, reducing GHGs (in this case CO2) is the most important factor. If you are looking instead at air pollution, ie particulate matter, then tires are a larger contributor than exhaust, and EVs due to weight are often worse than ICE cars.
- nerdo 3y ago
  It's 2030, sales of gasoline-powered passenger cars have been banned in California because of their immeasurable impact on the global climate. You've been tasked with replacing them: 1. Make cars, but powered by electric batteries! Don't mind me, just driving my 2000 lbs of batteries to the store and back! If I hit someone they'll suffer grave injury, I require monopoly access to city roadways, a parking lot that dwarfs the land use of the building I'm visiting, direct regular contact with the government for licensing, and a long list of negative externalities. Check it out though, less CO2 maybe? 2. Anything else?
  - revscat 3y ago
    2. Update zoning laws to favor foot and bike traffic rather than passenger cars 3. Increase availability and production of electric bikes 4. I don't really care how we get there. We do not have a choice in the matter.
    - nerdo 3y ago
      What happened to mass transit?
      - pmg102 3y ago
        Right so these are orthogonal problems. We could solve the transport element of carbon emissions while solve none of the other problems of personal vehicular transport. Or we could solve multiple of those problems. But it makes no sense to critique a solution to problem A by saying it is not ALSO a solution to problem B.
- jayd16 3y ago
  Is this really that significant? Seems like a model 3 and 3 series bmw weigh about the same.
  - pmg102 3y ago
    It's a bigger factor for small cars than for large ones, naturally. A Peugeot e208 EV weighs ~50% more than an ICE Peugeot 208 (1560 kg Vs 1065 kg).
lkbm 3y ago
I believe regenerative braking does help with some PM2.5. Tires are still an issue (perhaps worse than normal due to higher weight), but less brake pads friction is a big deal as well.
pmg102 3y ago
CO2 emissions definitely are a problem. Because carbon in the atmosphere causes climate impacts globally. Switching an ICE car to an EV car reduces carbon emissions significantly, perhaps by a factor of 2x to 5x. Particulate emissions are a separate problem. A local one but also important. Poor air quality contributes to diseases and deaths and EVs don't solve this one completely, although they do 1. reduce tailpipe particulate emissions (especially conpared to diesels) and 2. Use regenerative "engine braking" meaning less particulates from brake pad wear. However they still have tyre wear and that may be rather worse than an ICE car partly due to weight and partly due to immediate delivery of high torque to the drivetrain.

by nerdo 3y ago

pge 3y ago

For mitigating climate change, reducing GHGs (in this case CO2) is the most important factor. If you are looking instead at air pollution, ie particulate matter, then tires are a larger contributor than exhaust, and EVs due to weight are often worse than ICE cars.

nerdo 3y ago
It's 2030, sales of gasoline-powered passenger cars have been banned in California because of their immeasurable impact on the global climate. You've been tasked with replacing them: 1. Make cars, but powered by electric batteries! Don't mind me, just driving my 2000 lbs of batteries to the store and back! If I hit someone they'll suffer grave injury, I require monopoly access to city roadways, a parking lot that dwarfs the land use of the building I'm visiting, direct regular contact with the government for licensing, and a long list of negative externalities. Check it out though, less CO2 maybe? 2. Anything else?
- revscat 3y ago
  2. Update zoning laws to favor foot and bike traffic rather than passenger cars 3. Increase availability and production of electric bikes 4. I don't really care how we get there. We do not have a choice in the matter.
  - nerdo 3y ago
    What happened to mass transit?
    - pmg102 3y ago
      Right so these are orthogonal problems. We could solve the transport element of carbon emissions while solve none of the other problems of personal vehicular transport. Or we could solve multiple of those problems. But it makes no sense to critique a solution to problem A by saying it is not ALSO a solution to problem B.
jayd16 3y ago
Is this really that significant? Seems like a model 3 and 3 series bmw weigh about the same.
- pmg102 3y ago
  It's a bigger factor for small cars than for large ones, naturally. A Peugeot e208 EV weighs ~50% more than an ICE Peugeot 208 (1560 kg Vs 1065 kg).

lkbm 3y ago

I believe regenerative braking does help with some PM2.5. Tires are still an issue (perhaps worse than normal due to higher weight), but less brake pads friction is a big deal as well.

pmg102 3y ago

CO2 emissions definitely are a problem. Because carbon in the atmosphere causes climate impacts globally. Switching an ICE car to an EV car reduces carbon emissions significantly, perhaps by a factor of 2x to 5x. Particulate emissions are a separate problem. A local one but also important. Poor air quality contributes to diseases and deaths and EVs don't solve this one completely, although they do 1. reduce tailpipe particulate emissions (especially conpared to diesels) and 2. Use regenerative "engine braking" meaning less particulates from brake pad wear. However they still have tyre wear and that may be rather worse than an ICE car partly due to weight and partly due to immediate delivery of high torque to the drivetrain.