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Lack of Walkability in the US is destroying mental health
- henryhenryhenry 3y agoWhy do you feel better when you go to Europe, or even to Disneyland? Humans crave walkable neighborhoods. American and Canadian infrastructure is the main reason we have so many mental health problems.
- wombat-man 3y agoYeah, visited a few smaller cities in Spain and they were all very nice and walkable, at least in the areas I was at. Made me kinda sad to think about how we miss the mark on this. Feels like NYC is the only place, and it's great, just expensive to live in.
- anon291 3y ago> Feels like NYC is the only place, and it's great, just expensive to live in. There's actually a lot of walkable areas of many American cities or alternatively smaller rural towns. Generally, the older the city the easier these neighborhoods are to find. even LA has walkable neighborhoods (even though you'll still need a car to get around in general). But yes... expensive.
- bin_bash 3y agomost college towns, for example
- blueyes 3y agoMany parts of SF are walkable and many neighborhoods within the city do not have the crime problem that is so visible downtown.
- Zigurd 3y agoBoston and San Francisco are walkable, too, but on a much smaller scale. There are small cities, mainly in the eastern US that are walkable. I hope the rising popularity of e-bikes makes some lower density cities more navigable without a car. Pretty much all "stroads" should be converted to 2 car lanes and a turning lane in the middle, which would leave room for protected bike lanes.
- ericmcer 3y agoBeyond walkable just removing the constant noise and air pollution would have an instant positive affect on mental health.
- eBombzor 3y agoThis 1000%. I live in Seattle and I was lucky enough to find a 30min walkable commute to work but holy hell it is unbelievably stressful. Crazy drivers not respecting pedestrians, super loud trucks everywhere, constant road rage with blaring horns, sketchy looking sidewalks. I'm not exaggerating when I say that I'm pretty sure I have hearing loss from walking next to trucks that make an unbelievable amount of noise. Garbage trucks are the worst offenders in my experience. It's definitely gotten to the point where I have to find alternative routes from the main streets for my own safety. And isn't Seattle supposed to be one of the most walkable cities in the US?
- RankingMember 3y agoI'm not a fan of the condescending tone of a lot of NotJustBikes' videos, but he made a solid piece about the sheer sound impact of vehicles in cities: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTV-wwszGw8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTV-wwszGw8
- tptacek 3y agoI buy the value of walkable neighborhoods, but it's hard to make this epidemiological claim hold up; Canada and the US have broadly similar infrastructure but sharply different rates of mental illness; similarly, mental illness rates don't appear to track walkability in Europe.
- loandbehold 3y agoWalkability is good for physical health. Walking is a light exercise. Physical health improves mental health. But I'm not sure if walkability directly improves mental health.
- eBombzor 3y agoCanada also has free healthcare. There are an infinite number of cultural differences that could affect the mental health rates in EU/CA more positively than in the US.
- glonq 3y ago"free", but you often get what you pay for. source: am canadian.
- groby_b 3y agoAs opposed to overpaying for things that aren't actually helping you, but sure make the insurance company happy? Source: Am USian. (Also worth noting that you can add private health care to your menu. If you balk at the cost, welcome to the US model)
- grumple 3y agoIn the US, you'll empty your bank account and still get terrible service - you've spent money but received terrible care. Maybe things change if you can afford your own full-time doctor for 500k / year. Canada ranks above the US in every healthcare measure.
- glonq 3y ago
- automatic6131 3y ago>Why do you feel better when you go to Europe, or even to Disneyland? Probably because you're on vacation? Why is there nothing that walkable city enthusiasts will claim walkable cities won't fix?
- loandbehold 3y agoRight. I also feel good on road trips.
- CalRobert 3y agoI'm not on vacation and Europe has been great for me mentally. Similarly, I hate when I go back to the US.
- chrononaut 3y agoFor me the walkability benefit in Europe is almost offset by the overabundance of diesel exhaust fumes.
- CalRobert 3y agoWhereabouts are you? I remember in 2008 I visited and it seemed like the whole continent stank of diesel but it's much better now, or my sense of smell has weakened. I'm in the Netherlands and there's not too many cars on the road compared to many other places, though.
- blueyes 3y agoModern America reserves walkability for college campuses (which explains some of the nostalgia that attaches to them); golf courses and shopping malls -- which may explain part of their popularity.
- mrguyorama 3y agoActually, American shopping malls are a great example of UNwalkability, because they are usually out in the middle of nowhere with respect to the closest population center, mostly to fit giant parking lots but also because American Malls were a weird result of a certain retail and real estate situation. In America, "going to the mall" is almost always a trip you get into your car for, even if you live in a big city! You can't just drop in to get something as you walk around.
- vonnik 3y agoBut what I'm saying is: they're privatizing and selling walkability, as long as you get inside them. So walkability is no longer part of the commons. Agree with you that the parking lots contribute to sprawl, and in general v sad about it.
- henryhenryhenry 3y agoGreat points here. Walkability is the main reason people enjoy their college experience so much. Imagine having to drive from your dorm, to class, then to hang out with friends, then back. It would be a nightmare. Unfortunately, this is the everyday experience for most Americans.
- nine_zeros 3y agoThe main reason I like walking is just to feel like I am among people, even if I am not actively interacting with them. In the Bay area, my favorite place used to be the airport, because that's the only place I could see people other than my coworkers. And this may just be me but I feel that the reason I liked being among people is because it creates the illusion of possibilities. Possibilities of friendships, a date, an interesting person, a job opportunity etc. This was reaffirmed when I chatted with utter strangers for hours at the airport.
- hardcopy 3y ago> illusion of possibilities I wouldn't say it's an illusion. > People who live on heavily trafficked streets, which cater mostly to motorists, count on average about one friend. People who live on walkable streets, however, count three—and twice as many acquaintances, to boot. If your neighbors are within walking distance, and it’s easy for you to walk, it’s much more likely that you’ll bump into them, strike up a conversation, get to know them a little. https://qz.com/1421323/for-the-good-of-all-humankind-make-your-city-more-walkable https://qz.com/1421323/for-the-good-of-all-humankind-make-yo...
- Finnucane 3y agoIn my neighborhood I can walk, bike, or take the public transit almost anywhere I need to go (20 min bike ride to my office). There are shops, restaurants, a nice movie theater nearby. I live in a rowhouse surrounded mostly by other rowhouses and 2-3 family buildings, so I do know most of my neighbors. I grew up in a suburb and wouldn't go back for anything.
- vosper 3y agoThere’s nothing at this site except a hat that’s for sale and a claim that it’s raising money for a documentary?
- henryhenryhenry 3y agoWhat would you like to see on the site? The main purpose is to raise funds for the walkability doc. The doc will cover why the US became car-centric (corporate lobbying, etc), benefits of walkable infrastructure and it will compare US cities to walkable Euro cities.
- vosper 3y agoI’d like to see anything supporting the claim made in the post title.
- henryhenryhenry 3y agoCheck out the TED talk "Ghastly Tragedy of the Suburbs" it's worth your time
- loandbehold 3y agoAre there any studies that show that walkability improves mental health?
- Finnucane 3y agoNot living in the suburbs improves mental health.
- moritzwarhier 3y agoNot if you are living in a noisy and polluted location, which is the case for most people without a car, clichees aside.
- Tade0 3y agoOr just filled with so-called "night life" that so many people think they would participate more in if they lived closer. The novelty wears off after a few years and with kids it becomes more of an annoyance than anything else.
- moritzwarhier 3y agoThis is horrible too, and I agree :)
- mrguyorama 3y agoI am a massive hermit. I still benefit from living right in our city, because now instead of getting in my car to go get takeout, I walk from my apartment to the restaurant to get takeout. This is regular exercise I never had before. Sure, I'm not out clubbing every night, but I am still better off in a walkable environment than I was before.
- CalRobert 3y agoThe cars are what make it noisy and polluted of course.
- ch4s3 3y ago
- coderintherye 3y agoYour mileage may vary, literally, but I walk 1-2 hours everyday and am 10/10 on self-assessed happiness and mental health.
- glonq 3y agoI'm happy with jogging and walking every day, especially because I can reap the mental health benefits that better physical health brings.
- sky_rw 3y agoDuring my commute I watch a homeless guy in my town walk 2 miles with a limp everyday to the spot he panhandles. There may be more to it than walking.
- cagenut 3y agoIMHO we're going to look back historically at single-family-detached-suburban-sprawl as not just the fulcrum in destroying the environment, but also actively harmful to the people that live there, especially children. Its easy for it to feel "normal" or even aspirational to us now, but its basically only ~3 generations old, and the first generation raised in suburbs was usually larger families in closer-in suburbs, people that could still walk and bike to more-than-nothing and would be able to interact with extended family and cousins more frequently than just the holiday mega-travel. So really its only the children of baby boomers and their children that have exhibited the full force of the mental health and social development impacts of the extremely isolating environment.
- deprecative 3y agoI hope we exist long enough to look back at it and see what harm it has done. As it stands, I'm pretty sure most of us will be dead and so will most life on the planet.
- chromatin 3y agoReasonable people can disagree. My quite small yard in the burbs is my oasis with fruit trees, a garden, place for my dog to run, and a lovely place to sit and listen to birds. On top of this, we can walk to amenities and greet our neighbors on the sidewalk. If I lived in a soulless apartment block my mental health by contrast would be in the pits.
- ch4s3 3y agoI think people miss that there are living arrangements other than detached single family homes and tall apartment buildings.
- TulliusCicero 3y agoThe solution is soulful apartment blocks. The US is really bad at apartment complexes. I commonly saw way nicer, less depressing ones while living in the outskirts of Munich.
- jzb 3y agoExpected a study, got an ad. Literally the "above-the-fold" piece is an ad to buy a MAWA hat and then a beg for a documentary that isn't yet produced. Ugh.
- alibarber 3y agoYup - for anyone else, this link is junk. It's a page that says they have a million views on Tiktok and please give some money.
- henryhenryhenry 3y agoIt’s a project raising money for the documentary. Goal of the doc is to raise awareness about walkability.
- alibarber 3y agoIt's an honourable goal - but the page needs to tell us why you're the right person to make this documentary! How do you plan on proving your hypothesis? What evidence do you have to support it? Who have you spoken to who agrees and can support - who disagrees? What will the viewer learn from your documentary that they will not from elsewhere? Is it a documentary that the viewer will get excited about to see? If I disagree with you completely, might I watch it and have my mind changed? - These are questions I would want answered from such a site. I'm afraid the website looks more like a political campaign, collecting cash from those who agree with you. Or a merch store with a catchy slogan. Honestly I wish you well, I've supported indie docs before - these are just my first impressions from this site.
- henryhenryhenry 3y agoThanks for the tips. I’ll use your advice to revamp the site.
- jzb 3y agoThat's a nice goal, but the site doesn't deliver the promise of the headline. You don't cite a single study or back up that headline on the site. The site title doesn't match the headline. It's spammy to bait-and-switch with a submission that says one thing and then takes me to a page that tries to sell me a hat and make a donation - and utterly fails to provide any substance to back up the claim.
- EdTechAndrew 3y agoI am glad there is a growing enthusiasm for walkable cities in the US. It's something I've become very passionate about lately. For those that are interested in learning more about the topic, I highly highly recommend the City Nerd youtube channel, https://www.youtube.com/@CityNerd https://www.youtube.com/@CityNerd. I find a lot of arguments for for walkability tend to be emotional or needlessly hostile towards car owners. City Nerd takes a much more analytical approach and shares the data he uses for his videos, I think that's something most of HackerNews can appreciate.
- deprecative 3y agoAre they hostile to car owners or is it the car dependency enforced via city planning / infrastructure? I almost always see the latter but hear the former as criticism which is laughable.
- mrguyorama 3y agoWhen you've only ever been familiar with privilege, fairness feels unfair.
- EdTechAndrew 3y agoHostility may have been too strong of a choice of word. It's less the arguments or sentiments of anti-car advocates but more the language used online. For example, r/fuckcars is massive. A large subreddit might not be considered mainstream, but it does have massive reach. A lot of people see this as one of their first exposures to car-free communities and do not feel welcomed by it. I think it's somewhat of an optics issue, but it is very hard to find walkability communities online that aren't using terms like "car-brain". I know that these terms are targeted at a certain type of car owner, but without being familiar with the car-free community this is not always clear and can be a turn-off to car-owners who may be curious about learning more.
- deprecative 3y agoFuck cars, yes. That says nothing about car owners. You're letting your feelings get in the way of the message.
- hackyhacky 3y agoI am fully on-board with walkable cities, it's something I feel very strongly about. This link, however, is not to an article supporting the lofty claim of the title (currently "Lack of Walkability in the US is destroying mental health"), but rather to a shop where you can buy red Trump-style "Make America Walkable Again" hats.... for what end exactly? Not clear. The site is collecting donations, but they don't say what they plan to do with them. All of this smells very fishy. (As an aside, I'd guess the number of US residents who support walkable cities AND who are willing to wear a hat that is designed to be mistaken at first glance for one supporting the former president is very small.) If you're interested in a more informative discussion of city design and its effect on lived experience, I recommend Not Just Bikes [1]. [1] https://www.youtube.com/c/notjustbikes https://www.youtube.com/c/notjustbikes
- henryhenryhenry 3y agoWhat would you like to see on the website? All proceeds from hat sales go toward funding the Make America Walkable documentary.
- hackyhacky 3y agoIf you want to make a documentary, I would like to know why your documentary will be better than what is already available, such as Not Just Bikes, The Death and Life of Great American Cities, or any other prior art.
- henryhenryhenry 3y agoThis is a multi-year project, a feature length documentary that will be sold to a big streaming service, not a YouTube channel.
- hackyhacky 3y agoDo you already have an agreement to sell it for a big streaming service, or is that merely your aspiration? If you've already sold it, why do you need additional money? If you haven't already sold it, then you shouldn't speak about it as if doing so were a certainty. Regardless, you still haven't answered my question. Why is making a multi-year, feature-length documentary better than a series of videos on YouTube? Why do you think that your chosen medium will be more effective or persuasive than previous works? In other words, why do you think you deserve donations?
- cpursley 3y agoIt's the cause of so many issues in America (physical, mental, social). A great book on the utterly broken build environment in North America is "The Geography of Nowhere": https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/125313.The_Geography_of_Nowhere https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/125313.The_Geography_of_... Also, people forget - walkable doesn't just mean "somewhere you can walk" - I means you can walk to activities of daily living (groceries, pharmacy, gym, job, friends places, etc).
- oerpli 3y agoWhile it might cause other issues, I think the root is somewhere else and harder to solve (even if the solution is obvious).
- cpursley 3y agoWalkable communities would get people actually talking to each other, for a start - just from the serendipitous encounters with other people irl (like what happens in Europe).
- steaknpotato 3y ago[flagged]
- rajeshp1986 3y agoThere are other factors which contribute more to mental health but this is like justifying what the authors want using mental health as a reason. Making cities more walkable would be better for other reason but I doubt if mental health would significantly increase if we make cities more walkable. San Francisco is very much walkable but has highest mental health issues.
- shmerl 3y agoIt's crazy how some places have no sidewalks at all. Dumbest city design.
- TulliusCicero 3y agoYes, but walkability goes far beyond sidewalks. It's easy to find US cities with plenty of sidewalks that are hideously unwalkable, as well as many streets in Japan with no sidewalks that are still highly walkable.
- shmerl 3y agoUnless there are separate streets for pedestrians (which is basically non existent in US most of the time), not sure how you can have any city walkable without sidewalks.
- TulliusCicero 3y agoI'm not talking about all streets in a given city obviously. Specifically in Japan, narrow streets with no sidewalks are omnipresent in neighborhoods, and they're still far more walkable than a typical US neighborhood street with sidewalks.
- shmerl 3y agoJapan also favors smaller cars.
- TulliusCicero 3y agoYes, that definitely helps. It's a chicken and egg situation though. If the roads are wide then of course many will buy huge cars, and then urban planners feel they have to accommodate those with wider roads, etc.
- mrguyorama 3y agoMainly by making motorists responsible for killing pedestrians. Instead, in America you mostly don't even get fined for running over a pedestrian, as "it's just an unfortunate accident", even when you have chosen to purchase a vehicle that makes it harder to safely navigate around pedestrians. Consider: Do other countries even have the concept of "Jaywalking", which was explicitly an attempt by vehicle manufacturers to blame pedestrian deaths on pedestrians.
- princevegeta89 3y agoThis is not surprising in a capitalistic first-world country and always happens when everything around you is designed for you to always drive somewhere. It's up to each individual person to decide how or if they want to spend time outdoors, be it a run, walk, or a bike ride.
- henryhenryhenry 3y agoThe irony of your comment is American infrastructure in 2023 favors cars is less capitalistic and more corporate lobbying and the government siding with the car industry.
- henryhenryhenry 3y agoIt’s not about being anti-car, it’s about having OPTIONS. In most of the USA, you are forced to drive. There is no good alternative.
- marktani 3y agoHad a fun conversation about language learning with an American friend who's learning German. She asked me what "walkable" is in German. Then it hit me, we don't have this word because in Germany this concept is unknown. Funny how societal factors have such an imprint in language.
- henryhenryhenry 3y agoVery interesting fact. Thank you!
- rightbyte 3y ago"Fußgängerfreundlich"? It is used alright. E.g. Berlin has really bad street lighting, so I guess you could say it is not very pedestrian friendly.
- marktani 3y agoI stand corrected! I haven't heard this before and can only find online usage from official institutions and city departments though, so maybe it's a more official term?
- predictabl3 3y agoThe closest I've come to slipping back into clinical depression is when I moved home for a few months to KS where the weather is brutalizing and on top of it, they live in the "country" where civilization is 20 minutes away. One of my family members is clearly desperate for social outlets. And they thrive and gush over anywhere they travel to that inevitably is walkable and has tangible community. Idk how people do it.
- josuepeq 3y agoResident of walkable “San Francisco” here. I would say the stress of completing day to day errands and activities here having recently moved to a “walkable neighborhood” has been detrimental to my mental health, since moving out of the car centric western side of SF. It’s a fact that most of the commercial corridors here are at the bottom of the hill, which means climbing home. It only seems walkable here until you have to climb up 200 feet+ in elevation to get home with your groceries, and panhandled along the way. And at night, the situation is worse. I have learned that PCP is the most popular drug of choice for the encampment that exists between my walk from Whole Foods to home, and that explains the insanity that comes from it with an almost nightly occurrence. And even then, options for completing all of my errands locally are limited; for example we lack a full line grocery store in walking distance, among other needed businesses (like Walgreens) that have closed. I have found that getting what I need without a car in SF is 10x more complicated than having a car, so I keep mine. When talking about walkable cities, I would leave this off the list.
- lastitude 3y agoAnd the disabled, the elderly and the pregnant can just go sign up for MAID. I lived a decade in both NYC and LA and my quality of life, at a lower cost, was vastly better in LA, where I had to drive almost everywhere. People who want to live in restricted zones, like 15 minute cities where cars are banned and all options are limited, should certainly be free to do so. But these schemes are detrimental to the majority of the population.
- sharts 3y agoLack of walkability in the US is destroying mental health…and that is great for for health insurance and pharmaceutical companies, as well “mental-health” tech entrepreneurs and ChatGPT.