4 ms·

It would be easier and make more sense to just enact a road tax on tires.

by millzlane 3y ago

angiosperm 3y ago
Tires can be obtained via a quick trip out of state.
- lockhouse 3y ago
  That’s true of most taxes. People buy gas and cigarettes at Native American reservations all the time. How many people pay sales or income taxes for a private sale? Lots of people do landscaping, farm work, and simple handyman work “under the table” without paying income taxes. Preventing tax avoidance is a terrible excuse for Big Brother surveillance.
  - angiosperm 3y ago
    It just means you want a better way to assess tax liability than buying tires. We are not limited to "tires or GPS"; we have myriad other alternatives.
    - lockhouse 3y ago
      We could always try having more efficient government that doesn’t need to try so hard to squeeze every tax dollar they can out of the middle class. We wouldn’t even need to touch entitlement programs if we just got rid of wasteful pork spending and streamlined some of the bureaucracy.
      - angiosperm 3y ago
        1. There is no middle class remaining. Tax revenue comes principally from the underclass now. You and I are in the underclass. The upper class (>$10M/y) dodge taxes. 2. Roads need to be paid for somehow.
bhhaskin 3y ago
Or tax the chargers, just like they already do for the pumps.
- nomel 3y ago
  For 80% of users [1], a "charger" is any 240V drier outlet. This would require making "unmetered" plugs illegal. [1] https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/hybrids-evs/can-electric-vehicle-owners-rely-on-dc-fast-charging-a7004735945/#:~:text=Research%20by%20the%20Department%20of,is%20convenient%20to%20do%20overnight https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/hybrids-evs/can-electri....
  - bhhaskin 3y ago
    That would be much better solution than requiring all EVs to have a GPS tracker that reports to the state. How long until they decide to start using that data for more than just taxes?
    - nomel 3y ago
      > That would be much better solution No, not from a monetary perspective. It simply wouldn't work, and that can't be ignored. I think a workable approach might be having two options a person could choose from: 1. GPS (cheaper if you drive out of state often), 2. based on total mileage traveled.
      - bhhaskin 3y ago
        Why wouldn't that work? We already do it for fuel.
        deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
        nomel 3y ago
        Fuel is metered at the pump. Electricity going into a car can't be metered at every receptacle. For this to work, the metering would have to be in the car, with some government regulated system included in the power management. I think that's doable, but not for existing cars. A GPS could be easily installed in to any existing car, non-invasively, and mileage is already tracked.
lotsofpulp 3y ago
License plate readers and variable rate tolling on all roads seems like the most effective solution.

It would be easier and make more sense to just enact a road tax on tires.

angiosperm 3y ago

Tires can be obtained via a quick trip out of state.

lockhouse 3y ago
That’s true of most taxes. People buy gas and cigarettes at Native American reservations all the time. How many people pay sales or income taxes for a private sale? Lots of people do landscaping, farm work, and simple handyman work “under the table” without paying income taxes. Preventing tax avoidance is a terrible excuse for Big Brother surveillance.
- angiosperm 3y ago
  It just means you want a better way to assess tax liability than buying tires. We are not limited to "tires or GPS"; we have myriad other alternatives.
  - lockhouse 3y ago
    We could always try having more efficient government that doesn’t need to try so hard to squeeze every tax dollar they can out of the middle class. We wouldn’t even need to touch entitlement programs if we just got rid of wasteful pork spending and streamlined some of the bureaucracy.
    - angiosperm 3y ago
      1. There is no middle class remaining. Tax revenue comes principally from the underclass now. You and I are in the underclass. The upper class (>$10M/y) dodge taxes. 2. Roads need to be paid for somehow.

bhhaskin 3y ago

Or tax the chargers, just like they already do for the pumps.

nomel 3y ago
For 80% of users [1], a "charger" is any 240V drier outlet. This would require making "unmetered" plugs illegal. [1] https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/hybrids-evs/can-electric-vehicle-owners-rely-on-dc-fast-charging-a7004735945/#:~:text=Research%20by%20the%20Department%20of,is%20convenient%20to%20do%20overnight https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/hybrids-evs/can-electri....
- bhhaskin 3y ago
  That would be much better solution than requiring all EVs to have a GPS tracker that reports to the state. How long until they decide to start using that data for more than just taxes?
  - nomel 3y ago
    > That would be much better solution No, not from a monetary perspective. It simply wouldn't work, and that can't be ignored. I think a workable approach might be having two options a person could choose from: 1. GPS (cheaper if you drive out of state often), 2. based on total mileage traveled.
    - bhhaskin 3y ago
      Why wouldn't that work? We already do it for fuel.
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
      - nomel 3y ago
        Fuel is metered at the pump. Electricity going into a car can't be metered at every receptacle. For this to work, the metering would have to be in the car, with some government regulated system included in the power management. I think that's doable, but not for existing cars. A GPS could be easily installed in to any existing car, non-invasively, and mileage is already tracked.

lotsofpulp 3y ago

License plate readers and variable rate tolling on all roads seems like the most effective solution.