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Some of my most recent ChatGPT interactions: 34.223.203.0/28 what is the end ip of this range? Write python code to strip out characters that are not

Some of my most recent ChatGPT interactions: 34.223.203.0/28 what is the end ip of this range? Write python code to strip out characters that are not alphanumeric or spaces How do make FastAPI not return nulls in the response model when values don't exist? Rewrite this javascript to python <snippet of javascript code> Braindead stuff that I would normally lookup on StackOverflow but ChatGPT gives me the actual answer instead of me having to sift through comments. Also the last one is not something that's suited to StackOverflow. I feel I may be getting dumber, but also programming is not all that interesting to me that I would care to remember the details of any of these things.

PaulDavisThe1st 3y ago
[flagged]
- Waterluvian 3y ago
  For many people (maybe even most people) who write code, programming is just a tool. I know a lot of people who program, and it's the least enjoyable, least interesting part of their job. We need to be mindful, and quite careful, not to adopt an attitude of, "if you don't love it, and it's not your passion, stay out and let the "real programmers" do the work." I absolutely despise painting. But I like doing home renovations myself.
  - PaulDavisThe1st 3y ago
    I concede that this is an entirely fair point, and one that I did not consider (mostly because we're on "Hacker News".
    - sanderjd 3y ago
      Ironically, I think this is more true of "Hacker News" than on other more programming-focused forums. I would describe the ethos here as "innovative problem-solving using computer technology". Whether that involves programming is totally beside the point. It has largely been the case since this site launched that most of the solutions do involve programming, but there's no reason they must. I think lots of non-programmer entrepreneur and product manager types hang out here, because of exactly this.
      - PaulDavisThe1st 3y ago
        What use of computer technology can you imagine that does not involve programming?
        sanderjd 3y ago
        Cobbling together SaaS's, "no-code", building stuff using "prompt engineering" with AIs instead of writing code, innovative business models using pre-existing software, etc. etc.
        PaulDavisThe1st 3y ago
        Fair points, mostly.
- gdubs 3y ago
  Ah, yes — real programmers only work at the assembly level. Forget all this "rising levels of abstraction" nonsense.
- dotnet00 3y ago
  A programmer's job is to solve problems, not waste time on doing 'mechanical' tasks, especially if a tool can handle them.
- Maximus9000 3y ago
  People do stuff for money - they don't always enjoy it. This is a story as old as time. It reminds me of the Bob Dylan song "Hurricane": > Rubin could take a man out with just one punch > But he never did like to talk about it all that much > "It's my work" he'd say, "and I do it for pay > And when it's over I'd just as soon go on my way"
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- AlbertCory 3y ago
  "please stop programming" - wrong, wrong, wrong. It's a business, and some people rely on it for an income, ONLY. His "sin," if that's what it was for you, was saying out loud what lots of people actually feel.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
croes 3y ago
Wouldn't you normally chose the answer marked as answer marked on Stack Overflow or the one with the most points? ChatGPT doesn't offer that kind of user feedback, so you have no measure if the answer is valid if you don't know the topic well enough
- dnissley 3y ago
  If I can find a question that matches mine exactly, sure. Otherwise due to the imprecision of searching on google, I'm often left to filter through results, and then in each result that seems relevant filtering through each answer that seems relevant, sometimes never getting a perfect match. ChatGPT does offer user feedback of a kind though -- e.g. I can tell it "no, not like that, more like x" and it will take that into consideration.
- sanderjd 3y ago
  This is something that does concern me for people who are new to software engineering and haven't developed any "taste". But for me, I can sniff out bad or just mediocre answers from the bot and ask it for better ones, or go seek them out elsewhere (like on SO).
layer8 3y ago
The benefit of “sifting through answers” on StackOverflow is that you learn about different perspectives and about possible caveats. You tend to get a more complete picture. At least for me, that makes human-discussed content much more valuable. It’s a bit like reading HN comment threads vs. asking an LLM for its take on a submission.
- sanderjd 3y ago
  In theory this is right... But in practice I don't find that SO actually does a particularly good job of this. But nothing really does, unfortunately. When I want this kind of nuance, I end up digging through threads in all kinds of different places (including but not limited to SO) for ages.
  - Zamicol 3y ago
    I agree. Too often on Stack Overflow are incorrect answers upvoted, and correct answers are absent or buried. With ChatGPT, when it provides incorrect answers I've had good luck explaining the error. ChatGPT usually revises answers into useful output.
    - sanderjd 3y ago
      Yes, it's the back and forth that I highly value, and that is entirely absent (indeed, impossible) on SO. I am frequently saying things like "no, that's not right, ..." or "no, that's not what I meant, ..." or "could you keep this part, which seems good, but replace the rest with a different approach like ...". Think how rude it would be to micro-manage a volunteer answer on SO!
- tinus_hn 3y ago
  All I learn whenever I follow a link there is that the powers that be have decided that ‘this question is off-topic for Stack-Overflow’ and it has already been answered in a location that is now unavailable. The site is a big douchey middle finger. A dismissive know it all that actually doesn’t know all that much.
sanderjd 3y ago
I use chatgpt (and copilot) for this same kind of stuff. I don't at all think it's making me dumber. I'm spending more of my time learning and doing the far more interesting and creative domain-specific parts of my work. That is, it's making me smarter by freeing up time to focus on things that matter a lot more. Just like any other tool I've learned to use to automate away drudgery in the past.
- mmcdermott 3y ago
  The eternal paradox of tools is that they make those who don't need the tool more efficient and tend to inhibit learning in those who do need them. Take a pocket calculator for example. If you already know arithmetic, calculators make you more efficient, but they are a terrible way to teach arithmetic.
  - sanderjd 3y ago
    Yes I totally agree, and I think this is the hard part. I absolutely worry about this for people just entering software engineering. I rely on "taste" a huge amount to figure out whether I'm being told something useful or worthless, and I developed that intuition through years of experience not having an AI to ask.

PaulDavisThe1st 3y ago

[flagged]

Waterluvian 3y ago
For many people (maybe even most people) who write code, programming is just a tool. I know a lot of people who program, and it's the least enjoyable, least interesting part of their job. We need to be mindful, and quite careful, not to adopt an attitude of, "if you don't love it, and it's not your passion, stay out and let the "real programmers" do the work." I absolutely despise painting. But I like doing home renovations myself.
- PaulDavisThe1st 3y ago
  I concede that this is an entirely fair point, and one that I did not consider (mostly because we're on "Hacker News".
  - sanderjd 3y ago
    Ironically, I think this is more true of "Hacker News" than on other more programming-focused forums. I would describe the ethos here as "innovative problem-solving using computer technology". Whether that involves programming is totally beside the point. It has largely been the case since this site launched that most of the solutions do involve programming, but there's no reason they must. I think lots of non-programmer entrepreneur and product manager types hang out here, because of exactly this.
    - PaulDavisThe1st 3y ago
      What use of computer technology can you imagine that does not involve programming?
      - sanderjd 3y ago
        Cobbling together SaaS's, "no-code", building stuff using "prompt engineering" with AIs instead of writing code, innovative business models using pre-existing software, etc. etc.
        PaulDavisThe1st 3y ago
        Fair points, mostly.
gdubs 3y ago
Ah, yes — real programmers only work at the assembly level. Forget all this "rising levels of abstraction" nonsense.
dotnet00 3y ago
A programmer's job is to solve problems, not waste time on doing 'mechanical' tasks, especially if a tool can handle them.
Maximus9000 3y ago
People do stuff for money - they don't always enjoy it. This is a story as old as time. It reminds me of the Bob Dylan song "Hurricane": > Rubin could take a man out with just one punch > But he never did like to talk about it all that much > "It's my work" he'd say, "and I do it for pay > And when it's over I'd just as soon go on my way"
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
AlbertCory 3y ago
"please stop programming" - wrong, wrong, wrong. It's a business, and some people rely on it for an income, ONLY. His "sin," if that's what it was for you, was saying out loud what lots of people actually feel.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]

croes 3y ago

Wouldn't you normally chose the answer marked as answer marked on Stack Overflow or the one with the most points? ChatGPT doesn't offer that kind of user feedback, so you have no measure if the answer is valid if you don't know the topic well enough

dnissley 3y ago
If I can find a question that matches mine exactly, sure. Otherwise due to the imprecision of searching on google, I'm often left to filter through results, and then in each result that seems relevant filtering through each answer that seems relevant, sometimes never getting a perfect match. ChatGPT does offer user feedback of a kind though -- e.g. I can tell it "no, not like that, more like x" and it will take that into consideration.
sanderjd 3y ago
This is something that does concern me for people who are new to software engineering and haven't developed any "taste". But for me, I can sniff out bad or just mediocre answers from the bot and ask it for better ones, or go seek them out elsewhere (like on SO).

layer8 3y ago

The benefit of “sifting through answers” on StackOverflow is that you learn about different perspectives and about possible caveats. You tend to get a more complete picture. At least for me, that makes human-discussed content much more valuable. It’s a bit like reading HN comment threads vs. asking an LLM for its take on a submission.

sanderjd 3y ago
In theory this is right... But in practice I don't find that SO actually does a particularly good job of this. But nothing really does, unfortunately. When I want this kind of nuance, I end up digging through threads in all kinds of different places (including but not limited to SO) for ages.
- Zamicol 3y ago
  I agree. Too often on Stack Overflow are incorrect answers upvoted, and correct answers are absent or buried. With ChatGPT, when it provides incorrect answers I've had good luck explaining the error. ChatGPT usually revises answers into useful output.
  - sanderjd 3y ago
    Yes, it's the back and forth that I highly value, and that is entirely absent (indeed, impossible) on SO. I am frequently saying things like "no, that's not right, ..." or "no, that's not what I meant, ..." or "could you keep this part, which seems good, but replace the rest with a different approach like ...". Think how rude it would be to micro-manage a volunteer answer on SO!
tinus_hn 3y ago
All I learn whenever I follow a link there is that the powers that be have decided that ‘this question is off-topic for Stack-Overflow’ and it has already been answered in a location that is now unavailable. The site is a big douchey middle finger. A dismissive know it all that actually doesn’t know all that much.

sanderjd 3y ago

I use chatgpt (and copilot) for this same kind of stuff. I don't at all think it's making me dumber. I'm spending more of my time learning and doing the far more interesting and creative domain-specific parts of my work. That is, it's making me smarter by freeing up time to focus on things that matter a lot more. Just like any other tool I've learned to use to automate away drudgery in the past.

mmcdermott 3y ago
The eternal paradox of tools is that they make those who don't need the tool more efficient and tend to inhibit learning in those who do need them. Take a pocket calculator for example. If you already know arithmetic, calculators make you more efficient, but they are a terrible way to teach arithmetic.
- sanderjd 3y ago
  Yes I totally agree, and I think this is the hard part. I absolutely worry about this for people just entering software engineering. I rely on "taste" a huge amount to figure out whether I'm being told something useful or worthless, and I developed that intuition through years of experience not having an AI to ask.