3 ms·

> What do you mean by state ? External state. Class vars, instance vars, even (gasp) globals. OP goes on some slight tangents/comments regarding FP and state m

> What do you mean by state ? External state. Class vars, instance vars, even (gasp) globals. OP goes on some slight tangents/comments regarding FP and state management which inspired my comment.

youraverageuser 3y ago
Probably because it is very easy to mess up when using state incorrectly. It has been years since the last time my program run without bugs for the first time. If you're a genius, then sure, whatever tool you may be using, you'll do fine. But I noticed that many mainstream programming languages introduce concepts that are easy to misuse, even the same global variables. I recently wrote a small python script in 40-50, having concise and separate functions, etc. And I still was stuck on a bug that turned out be a consequence of shared state. The real issue was far from the location I was observing the bug. I think those kind of bugs is quite common. What it boils down to in the end, is your priorities. If you want a program that works 90% of the time and you don't care about the last 10%, then sure, stating your way through is quite natural. If you're sick of the small bugs that is the consequence of the language semantics and not the logic or design, then you'll start nailing down the factors that contribute to the erroneous nature, with state being just one part of it. Based on my experience in python and trying to teach other python developers some fp (spoiler, it didn't work)
pdimitar 3y ago
> Class vars, instance vars, even (gasp) globals. No need to focus on language-specific implementation details. A map that you are passing around in Elixir will serve you just fine 95% of the time. For the other 5% you can store state in an Agent, GenServer or in the ETS node-wide cache (here are your global variables). Not sure why you call FP a cargo cult btw, but in case you are interested in feedback: it makes you sound like arguing in bad faith.

> What do you mean by state ? External state. Class vars, instance vars, even (gasp) globals. OP goes on some slight tangents/comments regarding FP and state management which inspired my comment.

youraverageuser 3y ago

Probably because it is very easy to mess up when using state incorrectly. It has been years since the last time my program run without bugs for the first time. If you're a genius, then sure, whatever tool you may be using, you'll do fine. But I noticed that many mainstream programming languages introduce concepts that are easy to misuse, even the same global variables. I recently wrote a small python script in 40-50, having concise and separate functions, etc. And I still was stuck on a bug that turned out be a consequence of shared state. The real issue was far from the location I was observing the bug. I think those kind of bugs is quite common. What it boils down to in the end, is your priorities. If you want a program that works 90% of the time and you don't care about the last 10%, then sure, stating your way through is quite natural. If you're sick of the small bugs that is the consequence of the language semantics and not the logic or design, then you'll start nailing down the factors that contribute to the erroneous nature, with state being just one part of it. Based on my experience in python and trying to teach other python developers some fp (spoiler, it didn't work)

pdimitar 3y ago

> Class vars, instance vars, even (gasp) globals. No need to focus on language-specific implementation details. A map that you are passing around in Elixir will serve you just fine 95% of the time. For the other 5% you can store state in an Agent, GenServer or in the ETS node-wide cache (here are your global variables). Not sure why you call FP a cargo cult btw, but in case you are interested in feedback: it makes you sound like arguing in bad faith.