6 ms·

Far-right populist emerges as biggest vote in Argentina’s presidential primary

28 points by jalev 3y ago

monsecchris 3y ago
Why would anyone vote for this candidate when socialism has been providing such good outcomes in South America for so long?
- Arnt 3y ago
  Oh, what clue. Here are wikipedia pages for the two political parties to whom the last five presidents belonged: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republican_Proposal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republican_Proposal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justicialist_Party https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justicialist_Party
  - monsecchris 3y ago
    > left-wing populism
    - Arnt 3y ago
      I have a feeling that you're trying to imply that left-wing populism is similar to socialism and different from right-wing populism, and that you want to imply rather than say because saying that outright because would look ridiculous. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirchnerism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirchnerism has a list of the five main principles of the left-wing populist faction to which you refer. All of them are about external trade, central bank policy, etc, none of them mention any social policies at all. Do they look socialist to you? Any of them? On the other hand, can you even tell what makes them left- rather than right-wing populist? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_Party_(Argentina) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_Party_(Argentina) describes what the socialists think. The voters don't have a problem telling the difference.
      - monsecchris 3y ago
        The fact you are persistently referring to wikipedia when discussing politics demonstrates everything anyone needs to know.
        Arnt 3y ago
        For some definition of 'need', I suppose.
  - spiderfarmer 3y ago
    It’s strange to me that so many commenters on Hacker News repeat talking points that sound like Fox News commentary. That is to say, (the old) USA is all good and the rest of the world sucks.
    - AnimalMuppet 3y ago
      Linking to Wikipedia is "repeating talking points that sound like Fox News commentary"? Or did you reply to the wrong post? Are you saying that the Wikipedia articles are inaccurate? Misleading? Not applicable? What are you actually saying, and what is your basis for saying it? In fact, your post reads like what you are accusing others of. You say something that 1) doesn't seem related, 2) has no data behind it, but 3) is supposed to make us reject someone else's point of view just because it's "bad" in some sense. If you want us to actually listen, you need to give us more than you have given us so far. Otherwise, we'll just ignore what you say like you seem to think we should ignore Fox News.
      - spiderfarmer 3y ago
        As long as you stop watching Fox News for the same reason you want to ignore me, then we’re all good.
        Arnt 3y ago
        This sounds as if you think there's something bad about Fox News. I agree with that, IMO there is much wrong about Fox News, but may I ask why you think so? I ask because my reasons oblige me to avoid certain behaviours. You seem to think it's okay for you to post things that should be ignored for reasons that we should ignoreFox News, but if those reasons apply to your postings, why aren't they reasons to not post? This may sound like a complicated rhetorical way to ask you to stop posting such things, and maybe it is that. I overlook things and I know it, so I like to ask why and how and so on. If you do have reasons, please explain. Otherwise, please change your ways.
        spiderfarmer 3y ago
- timeon 3y ago
  Maybe not in two-party system but there are usually more sides of politics.
- Simulacra 3y ago
  Socialism only works when everyone agrees to pursue the collective interest. Since people naturally pursue self interest it requires force to adhere to the collective mindset. That's where everything breaks down. The greater the force the greater the resistance, and over time this has stagnated the economy.
decremental 3y ago
Oh they said far right that means you're supposed to be angry >:(
- nathanaldensr 3y ago
  It doesn't trigger anger in me; instead, I just flag these Reddit-tier rage pieces and move on.
veave 3y ago
>Before the election, analysts had warned that a better-than-expected showing for Milei, 52, would likely upset financial markets and lead to a sharp plunge in the value of Argentina’s peso amid uncertainty about what economic policies he might implement if he became president. They should look at how the peso has been doing thus far: https://www.chartoasis.com/charts/usd-ars-10-years-chart-desktop.png https://www.chartoasis.com/charts/usd-ars-10-years-chart-des...
- pxeger1 3y ago
  Remarkably smooth in the last year. Does anyone have an explanation for why it's not spiky at all like most economic graphs?
  - mughinn 3y ago
    That is a graph of the official exchange rate, set by the government and not moved by the market Every day the government moves devalues the peso gradually. If you search for a graph of the market valued dollars (MEP, CCL, Blue, etc) you'll find they look a lot more spiky This one in Alphacast (a platform for economic data) compares the blue dollar to the MEP dollar https://www.alphacast.io/p/lisandroiriarte/charts/dolar-mep-vs-dolar-blue-9698?tab=chart&stackMode=absolute&year=latest&country=~ARG https://www.alphacast.io/p/lisandroiriarte/charts/dolar-mep-...
  - whimsicalism 3y ago
    my guess: once it gets baked into expectations that it will inflate a certain amount, it will continue to do so because everyone is planning around it like this.
  - alecco 3y ago
    Market manipulation by spending reserves like there is no tomorrow and borrowing from anybody, including China in yuans recently.
akh000 3y ago
Argentina has been governing for a long time with the extreme left and they have the country sunk in misery. It's definitely a good thing for Argentina.
- dysoco 3y ago
  As an Argentinian this is nonsense, the government right now is fairly centrist (with a bias towards left specially in social matters), "the government is extreme left" is only claimed by those who support Milei. A clear counterexample is that there are quite a few more leftists parties like PO or FIT which barely get any votes.
- zokula 3y ago
  [dead]
systemvoltage 3y ago
Far-right = moderate. This is a signaling term for the managerial and laptop class people as an “outgroup”. Funny how leftist politics is getting impatiently authoritarian, PG tweeted this just today: https://x.com/paulg/status/1690952107250302976 https://x.com/paulg/status/1690952107250302976 Also in other news, Germany wants to ban “far-right” political party. If that doesn’t sound authoritarian, I’m not sure what would.
- AnimalMuppet 3y ago
  Leftists have been impatiently authoritarian at least since 1917. (Arguably, since 1789.) (Not all leftists. But the existence of impatiently authoritarian leftists should not be a surprise by now.)
- tivert 3y ago
  > Also in other news, Germany wants to ban “far-right” political party. If that doesn’t sound authoritarian, I’m not sure what would. Apparently that party is becoming pretty popular, too, and polling better than their current prime minister's party (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/08/13/afd-party-ban-germany-far-right-extremists/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/08/13/afd-party-ban-ge..., https://www.politico.eu/europe-poll-of-polls/germany/ https://www.politico.eu/europe-poll-of-polls/germany/). I agree, it's not a good look. Talk like that makes Western democracy look like a sham, though a more subtle sham than Soviet democracy. You can vote for any party you want as long as it's 1) approved by the political elites or 2) has no chance of holding power. It would be a lot less toxic to democracy if those elites just compromised with the democratic reality and moderated their unpopular policies and address the issues they're leaving unresolved.
- Niksko 3y ago
  > [Milei] ... thinks climate change is a lie, characterizes sex education as a ploy to destroy the family, believes the sale of human organs should be legal and wants to make it easier to own handguns. Yes, all very moderate views in 2023
  - systemvoltage 3y ago

28 points by jalev 3y ago

Why would anyone vote for this candidate when socialism has been providing such good outcomes in South America for so long?

Arnt 3y ago
Oh, what clue. Here are wikipedia pages for the two political parties to whom the last five presidents belonged: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republican_Proposal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republican_Proposal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justicialist_Party https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justicialist_Party
- monsecchris 3y ago
  > left-wing populism
  - Arnt 3y ago
    I have a feeling that you're trying to imply that left-wing populism is similar to socialism and different from right-wing populism, and that you want to imply rather than say because saying that outright because would look ridiculous. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirchnerism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirchnerism has a list of the five main principles of the left-wing populist faction to which you refer. All of them are about external trade, central bank policy, etc, none of them mention any social policies at all. Do they look socialist to you? Any of them? On the other hand, can you even tell what makes them left- rather than right-wing populist? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_Party_(Argentina) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_Party_(Argentina) describes what the socialists think. The voters don't have a problem telling the difference.
    - monsecchris 3y ago
      The fact you are persistently referring to wikipedia when discussing politics demonstrates everything anyone needs to know.
      - Arnt 3y ago
        For some definition of 'need', I suppose.
- spiderfarmer 3y ago
  It’s strange to me that so many commenters on Hacker News repeat talking points that sound like Fox News commentary. That is to say, (the old) USA is all good and the rest of the world sucks.
  - AnimalMuppet 3y ago
    Linking to Wikipedia is "repeating talking points that sound like Fox News commentary"? Or did you reply to the wrong post? Are you saying that the Wikipedia articles are inaccurate? Misleading? Not applicable? What are you actually saying, and what is your basis for saying it? In fact, your post reads like what you are accusing others of. You say something that 1) doesn't seem related, 2) has no data behind it, but 3) is supposed to make us reject someone else's point of view just because it's "bad" in some sense. If you want us to actually listen, you need to give us more than you have given us so far. Otherwise, we'll just ignore what you say like you seem to think we should ignore Fox News.
    - spiderfarmer 3y ago
      As long as you stop watching Fox News for the same reason you want to ignore me, then we’re all good.
      - Arnt 3y ago
        This sounds as if you think there's something bad about Fox News. I agree with that, IMO there is much wrong about Fox News, but may I ask why you think so? I ask because my reasons oblige me to avoid certain behaviours. You seem to think it's okay for you to post things that should be ignored for reasons that we should ignoreFox News, but if those reasons apply to your postings, why aren't they reasons to not post? This may sound like a complicated rhetorical way to ask you to stop posting such things, and maybe it is that. I overlook things and I know it, so I like to ask why and how and so on. If you do have reasons, please explain. Otherwise, please change your ways.
        spiderfarmer 3y ago
timeon 3y ago
Maybe not in two-party system but there are usually more sides of politics.
Simulacra 3y ago
Socialism only works when everyone agrees to pursue the collective interest. Since people naturally pursue self interest it requires force to adhere to the collective mindset. That's where everything breaks down. The greater the force the greater the resistance, and over time this has stagnated the economy.

decremental 3y ago

Oh they said far right that means you're supposed to be angry >:(

nathanaldensr 3y ago
It doesn't trigger anger in me; instead, I just flag these Reddit-tier rage pieces and move on.

veave 3y ago

>Before the election, analysts had warned that a better-than-expected showing for Milei, 52, would likely upset financial markets and lead to a sharp plunge in the value of Argentina’s peso amid uncertainty about what economic policies he might implement if he became president. They should look at how the peso has been doing thus far: https://www.chartoasis.com/charts/usd-ars-10-years-chart-desktop.png https://www.chartoasis.com/charts/usd-ars-10-years-chart-des...

pxeger1 3y ago
Remarkably smooth in the last year. Does anyone have an explanation for why it's not spiky at all like most economic graphs?
- mughinn 3y ago
  That is a graph of the official exchange rate, set by the government and not moved by the market Every day the government moves devalues the peso gradually. If you search for a graph of the market valued dollars (MEP, CCL, Blue, etc) you'll find they look a lot more spiky This one in Alphacast (a platform for economic data) compares the blue dollar to the MEP dollar https://www.alphacast.io/p/lisandroiriarte/charts/dolar-mep-vs-dolar-blue-9698?tab=chart&stackMode=absolute&year=latest&country=~ARG https://www.alphacast.io/p/lisandroiriarte/charts/dolar-mep-...
- whimsicalism 3y ago
  my guess: once it gets baked into expectations that it will inflate a certain amount, it will continue to do so because everyone is planning around it like this.
- alecco 3y ago
  Market manipulation by spending reserves like there is no tomorrow and borrowing from anybody, including China in yuans recently.

akh000 3y ago

Argentina has been governing for a long time with the extreme left and they have the country sunk in misery. It's definitely a good thing for Argentina.

dysoco 3y ago
As an Argentinian this is nonsense, the government right now is fairly centrist (with a bias towards left specially in social matters), "the government is extreme left" is only claimed by those who support Milei. A clear counterexample is that there are quite a few more leftists parties like PO or FIT which barely get any votes.
zokula 3y ago
[dead]

systemvoltage 3y ago

Far-right = moderate. This is a signaling term for the managerial and laptop class people as an “outgroup”. Funny how leftist politics is getting impatiently authoritarian, PG tweeted this just today: https://x.com/paulg/status/1690952107250302976 https://x.com/paulg/status/1690952107250302976 Also in other news, Germany wants to ban “far-right” political party. If that doesn’t sound authoritarian, I’m not sure what would.

AnimalMuppet 3y ago
Leftists have been impatiently authoritarian at least since 1917. (Arguably, since 1789.) (Not all leftists. But the existence of impatiently authoritarian leftists should not be a surprise by now.)
tivert 3y ago
> Also in other news, Germany wants to ban “far-right” political party. If that doesn’t sound authoritarian, I’m not sure what would. Apparently that party is becoming pretty popular, too, and polling better than their current prime minister's party (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/08/13/afd-party-ban-germany-far-right-extremists/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/08/13/afd-party-ban-ge..., https://www.politico.eu/europe-poll-of-polls/germany/ https://www.politico.eu/europe-poll-of-polls/germany/). I agree, it's not a good look. Talk like that makes Western democracy look like a sham, though a more subtle sham than Soviet democracy. You can vote for any party you want as long as it's 1) approved by the political elites or 2) has no chance of holding power. It would be a lot less toxic to democracy if those elites just compromised with the democratic reality and moderated their unpopular policies and address the issues they're leaving unresolved.
Niksko 3y ago
> [Milei] ... thinks climate change is a lie, characterizes sex education as a ploy to destroy the family, believes the sale of human organs should be legal and wants to make it easier to own handguns. Yes, all very moderate views in 2023
- systemvoltage 3y ago