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Please tell me what ideas euorpeans hold that you find morally repugnant.

by josephcooney 15y ago

wickedchicken 15y ago
Please don't start "my country vs. your country" threads.
- josephcooney 15y ago
  I don't live in Europe. I was legitimately curious.
swordswinger12 15y ago
I find their criminalization of right-wing radical speech to be pretty repugnant, e.g. jail time for Holocaust denial in Germany. Don't get me wrong, Holocaust deniers are all mad as hatters, but they shouldn't be thrown in jail for expressing an opinion. See also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_speech_by_country#European_Union http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_speech_by_country#Eu...
- fauigerzigerk 15y ago
  I find many of these laws quite outdated as well, but you have to consider the historical context. These laws were made at a time when the nazis had just murdered millions of people, caused a world war, and most importantly, were still holding all the influencial positions in the country. The nazis were a broad popular movement. It wasn't just some dictator and his family who could be removed in a day. Most of the intellectual elite was either dead or had left the country. The nazis had replaced everyone who held any kind of official role with their own people. All the judges, university teachers, school principals, police officers, civil servants, etc, they were all nazis or opportunistic collaborators with questionable political attitudes. There was no way all these people could have been removed from their posts or put in jail where they really belonged. Preventing them from being politically active, banning their symbols and everything they might reunite behind in order to regain power, was seen as the only practical way to diffuse a very real threat. Also, the laws were made at a time when no law could be made without the approval the US government. After all, a large number of US, British, Russian, and other soldiers had just lost their lives liberating Europe and removing the nazis from power. It would have been insane to just let the nazis resume their political activities. But 66 years on they are no longer a threat. They have almost no popular support, and the very specific laws that violate free speech could now be replaced by general laws against inciting violence like they exist in all countries.
- hobin 15y ago
  I don't think that's a European thing, per se. Have you ever been to Holland? ;)
philwelch 15y ago
I am dismayed at the continuing popularity of fascism in Europe. Ten years ago, a crypto-fascist got almost 1/5 of the vote in the French presidential election; many countries in Europe seem to elect neo-fascists or crypto-fascists to the European Parliament just to spite the EU. Judging by the experiences of footballers like Samuel Eto'o, Mario Balotelli, and Patrice Evra, Europe is decades behind the United States in tackling the problem of racism. I've never heard of black athletes on the field of play being the subject of racist taunts either by the fans or by opposing players in the United States. It is unbelievably taboo. I'm shocked that in Italy, it is apparently possible to simultaneously be the richest man in the country, the majority owner of a major media conglomerate, and Prime Minister. And that's setting aside all the other unsavory things about Berlusconi. Now, I kind of expect a lot of Europeans--on HN at least--to be embarrassed about neofascists or racism or Berlusconi, but hey, I'm just as embarrassed about Santorum.

Please tell me what ideas euorpeans hold that you find morally repugnant.

wickedchicken 15y ago

Please don't start "my country vs. your country" threads.

josephcooney 15y ago
I don't live in Europe. I was legitimately curious.

swordswinger12 15y ago

I find their criminalization of right-wing radical speech to be pretty repugnant, e.g. jail time for Holocaust denial in Germany. Don't get me wrong, Holocaust deniers are all mad as hatters, but they shouldn't be thrown in jail for expressing an opinion. See also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_speech_by_country#European_Union http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_speech_by_country#Eu...

fauigerzigerk 15y ago
I find many of these laws quite outdated as well, but you have to consider the historical context. These laws were made at a time when the nazis had just murdered millions of people, caused a world war, and most importantly, were still holding all the influencial positions in the country. The nazis were a broad popular movement. It wasn't just some dictator and his family who could be removed in a day. Most of the intellectual elite was either dead or had left the country. The nazis had replaced everyone who held any kind of official role with their own people. All the judges, university teachers, school principals, police officers, civil servants, etc, they were all nazis or opportunistic collaborators with questionable political attitudes. There was no way all these people could have been removed from their posts or put in jail where they really belonged. Preventing them from being politically active, banning their symbols and everything they might reunite behind in order to regain power, was seen as the only practical way to diffuse a very real threat. Also, the laws were made at a time when no law could be made without the approval the US government. After all, a large number of US, British, Russian, and other soldiers had just lost their lives liberating Europe and removing the nazis from power. It would have been insane to just let the nazis resume their political activities. But 66 years on they are no longer a threat. They have almost no popular support, and the very specific laws that violate free speech could now be replaced by general laws against inciting violence like they exist in all countries.
hobin 15y ago
I don't think that's a European thing, per se. Have you ever been to Holland? ;)

philwelch 15y ago

I am dismayed at the continuing popularity of fascism in Europe. Ten years ago, a crypto-fascist got almost 1/5 of the vote in the French presidential election; many countries in Europe seem to elect neo-fascists or crypto-fascists to the European Parliament just to spite the EU. Judging by the experiences of footballers like Samuel Eto'o, Mario Balotelli, and Patrice Evra, Europe is decades behind the United States in tackling the problem of racism. I've never heard of black athletes on the field of play being the subject of racist taunts either by the fans or by opposing players in the United States. It is unbelievably taboo. I'm shocked that in Italy, it is apparently possible to simultaneously be the richest man in the country, the majority owner of a major media conglomerate, and Prime Minister. And that's setting aside all the other unsavory things about Berlusconi. Now, I kind of expect a lot of Europeans--on HN at least--to be embarrassed about neofascists or racism or Berlusconi, but hey, I'm just as embarrassed about Santorum.