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Stewart Brand in his book "Whole Earth Discipline" — a book I've mentioned countless times here — talks about his role in the early environmentalist movement, a

by gdubs 3y ago

Stewart Brand in his book "Whole Earth Discipline" — a book I've mentioned countless times here — talks about his role in the early environmentalist movement, and from that vantage point discusses how good intentions lead to a lot of unfortunate outcomes — coal power replacing nuclear in Europe being a good example. A lot of these people have their hearts in the right place but it's a good reminder that we often hang onto ideas despite information — and circumstance — evolving around us. Lobbying against wind farms to protect birds that will likely be wiped out eventually by fossil fuel emissions is a good example of this. I'm hoping at this point we can all put politics aside, as well as our preconceived notions of how we see the world, and actually start to make progress on this issue of climate that will define our generation. It's not an easy challenge at all — and it's likely we've gotten to a point where adaptation is our remaining hope; but it's not a lost cause and we have many tools in our belt to try and make a meaningful change in course.

rayiner 3y ago
[flagged]
- gdubs 3y ago
  I mean, I make an earnest call for us to put politics aside and the response is a yahoo news story about AOC? C'mon, this is what I'm saying – let's make an honest attempt to focus on solutions we can agree on. Politicians are going to be politicians – but most of us are citizens. And there are a lot of possible solutions we can come together and support. + Massive reforestation efforts. While we're at it, I'd suggest whatever we're paying countries sitting on massive natural forests to not cut them down, we should up it by an order of magnitude. + Let's once-and-for-all modernize our electrical grid. We've been close before, and it's actually doable. And there's national security reasons to do it, and you don't even have to believe in Climate Change to know that downed power lines happen all the time from extreme weather events. Places like Arizona can't risk losing AC, etc. + Invest in a Manhattan style project to advance carbon sequestration technologies. Perhaps it'll never work. Maybe it's true that it just gives fossil fuel companies license to continue on as normal. But I think it's worth a shot, and might appeal to centrists and people further to the right. So I think people on the left and hardcore environmentalists should compromise here and accept that there might be a way to solve this problem that doesn't remake all of society. Last one is the most controversial, and probably politically impossible because nobody likes a tax, but I think a Carbon Tax is a no-brainer. Look: the tax payer is already paying for the negative externalities of fossil fuel emissions. But the fossil fuel companies are not. We solved the ozone issue this way in the 90s, it allows 'the market' to have a hand in the process, and could lead to both innovation and consumers adapting and choosing the aspects of their life they don't mind compromising on. It's better in my opinion than dictating that everyone ration x, y, or z. Let people decide with their wallets.
  - rayiner 3y ago
    My point is that many of the people leading the charge on this see climate change as a way to achieve the political goals they always wanted anyway. It’s not even necessarily a cynical thing, or limited to politicians. Lots (most?) ordinary people think you should solve climate change through veganism, or urbanism, or socialism, or stuff they already supported for other reasons. When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. You and I and five other people can get on board with your proposals. But where’s the bills to do those things?

by gdubs 3y ago

rayiner 3y ago

[flagged]

gdubs 3y ago
I mean, I make an earnest call for us to put politics aside and the response is a yahoo news story about AOC? C'mon, this is what I'm saying – let's make an honest attempt to focus on solutions we can agree on. Politicians are going to be politicians – but most of us are citizens. And there are a lot of possible solutions we can come together and support. + Massive reforestation efforts. While we're at it, I'd suggest whatever we're paying countries sitting on massive natural forests to not cut them down, we should up it by an order of magnitude. + Let's once-and-for-all modernize our electrical grid. We've been close before, and it's actually doable. And there's national security reasons to do it, and you don't even have to believe in Climate Change to know that downed power lines happen all the time from extreme weather events. Places like Arizona can't risk losing AC, etc. + Invest in a Manhattan style project to advance carbon sequestration technologies. Perhaps it'll never work. Maybe it's true that it just gives fossil fuel companies license to continue on as normal. But I think it's worth a shot, and might appeal to centrists and people further to the right. So I think people on the left and hardcore environmentalists should compromise here and accept that there might be a way to solve this problem that doesn't remake all of society. Last one is the most controversial, and probably politically impossible because nobody likes a tax, but I think a Carbon Tax is a no-brainer. Look: the tax payer is already paying for the negative externalities of fossil fuel emissions. But the fossil fuel companies are not. We solved the ozone issue this way in the 90s, it allows 'the market' to have a hand in the process, and could lead to both innovation and consumers adapting and choosing the aspects of their life they don't mind compromising on. It's better in my opinion than dictating that everyone ration x, y, or z. Let people decide with their wallets.
- rayiner 3y ago
  My point is that many of the people leading the charge on this see climate change as a way to achieve the political goals they always wanted anyway. It’s not even necessarily a cynical thing, or limited to politicians. Lots (most?) ordinary people think you should solve climate change through veganism, or urbanism, or socialism, or stuff they already supported for other reasons. When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. You and I and five other people can get on board with your proposals. But where’s the bills to do those things?